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  • 枫下拾英 / 心情随笔 / 为什么身在国内的人对于北京2008年举办奥运会都持“欣喜若狂”的态度，可是已经移民出去的人却有很多对此指指点点那？我劝持异议的同胞们，回来看看，来感受一下这里的气氛！来感受一下这里通宵达旦的狂欢！！！ -32b6566(土拨鼠); 2001-7-16 (#133783@0)
    • 土拨鼠, it's time to sleep now. -mrviceroy(杀人者Daniel是也); 2001-7-16 (#133785@0)
    • 7。13那天晚上，我在一个酒吧里和朋友们喝酒、等待着，当北京两个字从电视机里传出来的时候，甚至连在场的老外都为之欢呼，可是作为一个中国人，却哪里来得这许多牢骚？！ -32b6566(土拨鼠); 2001-7-16 (#133787@0)
      • 老外欢呼不欢呼，跟我有没有牢骚有什么关系？ -rollor(Rollor); 2001-7-16 (#133891@0)
        • 又不是他们出钱 -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133892@0)
      • 这个说明不了什么问题，当年上山下乡出发的时候，‘同学们都激动的哭了！’ 陈水扁’冻蒜‘的时候，’几十万群众沸腾了‘。。。。。。。。 -fxid(枫下客); 2001-7-17 (#134990@0)
    • my point is: YOU WANT IT, YOU PAY FOR IT. you want olympic, but you CAN'T pay it by BO XUE those farmers and workers who may have not enough food to eat. -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133804@0)
      • china needs 22 Billion US DOLLARS for the olympics. you want those poor farmers to pay??? if you don't, would you pay? chinese people pay low tax in china. how would you contribute to olympics? -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133807@0)
      • 这是真的鱼么? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 {127} (#133899@0)
        刚才我用"飞翔的鱼"在枫下沙龙内搜索作者,共找到202条发言.
        除了这个话题,有6条用英语,其他是中文.
        再看: #119882
        这还是那条鱼么?
        • yeah, it is me. sorry, i can not use chinese characters right now. -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133901@0)
    • ONE MORE QUESTION: if you are asked to pay a 50% tax to accumulate money for Olympics, WOULD YOU STILL SAY YOU WANT IT???? -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133809@0)
      • WHO said you have to pay a 50% tax to accumulate money for Olympics? -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133811@0)
        • THEN TELL ME HOW DO YOU GET THOSE 22 BILLION US DOLLARS ??? -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133814@0)
          • You really don't know? Through ads, selling TV broadcasting rights, tourists income, tickets... There are a lot of ways to get the money. You may pay some of it, but not all? -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133817@0)
            • i DON'T know if those money can cover the COST or not. and those money get into our pocket 8 years later. WHO DO GOVERNMENT BORROW MONEY FROM RIGHT NOW? -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133818@0)
              • Money is important, but not the most important. -guest:; 2001-7-16 {626} (#133845@0)
                You are only looking at the one side of Olympics . Making money or not is a financial question and is totally depend on the management skills. You should know that a good CFO in a dead coop could just make it to fly.

                The real impact of hosting Olympics in China is not the money. For China, it is an opportunity to get closer to the world and a good chance to keep the reforms deeper. For the western world, people can come and have a close-up look at the real China, both bright and drak sides. They will have their own conclusion which is not from CNN.

                I do believe Olympics will construct a bridge over the ocean.
                • i agree with what you said. you are right. but U EARN(reputation, benefits etc.) IN THE FUTURE BY INVESTING RIGHT NOW. what's made up of the investment? maybe a poor farmer's life. u think it worth it? -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133862@0)
                  • one possible way: -guest:; 2001-7-16 {220} (#133870@0)
                    if I told you I am issuing a government bond for the games. The interest rate is 15%. I guarantee your returnings and interest. Are you going to buy it?

                    Of course, this assumption is base on the government's credit.
                    • gov't can finance its project in many diffrent ways. -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 {373} (#133889@0)
                      issuing a bond, borrowing from banks,etc. i hope china can finance it in these ways. and i hope they can report their financial buggets publicly.

                      the bond you said is attractive. coz the return is high(wow, 15%, guaranteed). but i am wondering, if, (i said if) gov't lose money, will they pay me the interest and principle by giving those poor farmers "BAI TIAO"?
                      • You are right. Acturally, I am not worry about the money. I am worried about how they are going to spend the money. I hope we can have less corruptions in the games. (I don't believe there's no corruption at all) -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133895@0)
                        • It is still something about MONEY! -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133897@0)
                        • i worried about how they are gonna get money and how they are gonna spend money. i am happy for beijing to get olympics. but i hope beijing can give us a fair and clean game. no dirty games behind. -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133907@0)
                • If China really want to be closed to the world, just get rid of the limiation and restrction for the reporters. Welcome them come to China. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 {89} (#133874@0)
                  Otherwise, even with the Olympics game, they still can just report the dark side of China
          • 如果,注意是如果220亿美元全部有老百姓出的话,看看我算的. 220亿美元约合人民币2000亿. 2000亿由13亿人分7年出,2000/(7*13)约为人民币22元每年,2块钱一个月. -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133819@0)
            • Why divide by 1.3B? Beijing only has 10millions people. It is beijing hosted the Game, not China. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133820@0)
              • 我一直认为这是中国申办奥运会 -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133823@0)
                • So you think if Toronto win, the people in BC or Qec have to pay for the game? -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133824@0)
                  • 联邦政府会提供部分.我们付7%的联邦税和xx%的个人所得税. -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133828@0)
                    • Do you know how much? From my understanding, it is only very small amount, less then 5% -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133832@0)
                      • 对不起.我不知道! 但别忘了,#133819 是"如果..." 也别忘了看一下 #133817, 再比较比较其他国家是怎么办的. -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133838@0)
                        • Forget about it. If only BJer will pay for the game, I do not believe the BJer will support it. 22Billion US, Every one in the city have to pay about 10,000RMB. How many family could afford that! -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133852@0)
                          • 请问有哪一届奥运会的钱是全部从该城市民的口袋里出的? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133857@0)
                            • 夷，难到是印币厂出？财富是谁创造出来的？ -guest:好好; 2001-7-16 (#133867@0)
                            • 但是，为什么每年都是全国人民喂北京，什么时候他能为大家坐垫贡献那。更别提北京那些憨头憨脑的那么低的分就能上大学。 -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#134459@0)
                        • 申办奥运会从来都是城市行为，不是国家行为。这次加拿大联邦政府倒是想出钱赞助TORONTO，不过被MONTREAL给拒了。前几天的新闻里有，自己查查报纸也行。 -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133876@0)
                          • 哈哈，让人想起了“有中国特色的奥林匹克运动会”！奇怪的是：so many people actually buy it! -guest:中国特色; 2001-7-16 (#133884@0)
                • The BJer should think like this. It is China hosted the game. All people in China pay for it and only BJer will get the real benefit. What a great idea! -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133842@0)
                  • I am not bjer.I am from sh. -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133847@0)
                    • So, you surprised me. 很清楚，奥运会就是全国人民买单，只有北京得实利。As wise as you, I am surprised you still support it. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133863@0)
                      • I think there are a lot of people from different cities are happy about the Olympic game.Do you think so? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133869@0)
                        • Read up #133411. "为了在邻居面前显摆一下，在自己的孩子里挑出一个长得还可以姑娘给她吃大米白面，给她擦胭抹粉，然后 -guest:; 2001-7-16 {345} (#133875@0)
                          对其他的孩子们说“我把给你们买衣服和粮食的钱都给她打扮了，她是我们全家的代表啊。美了她一个，可以让邻居们知道我们家是多么的富裕；看到我们家的变化是多么大，终于摘掉了贫穷的帽子；这是我们全家的光荣！”然后再让这些光着屁股的孩子们躲在门后用已经饿得发慌的声音喊着“我们富起来啦，我们站起来啦。爸爸妈妈万岁！我真的要哭了，为那些可怜的人们。quotation"
                        • I only care about myself and my parents. If other people are happy to pay, they have the freedem. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133877@0)
                          • good -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133882@0)
                  • 你不是北京人吧, 想得太幼稚了. 你知道北京有多少人将因为奥运会被迫动迁? -holly(只羡厨师不羡仙); 2001-7-16 (#133856@0)
                    • I think the whole debate just simply follows up Goodbaby's logic (divide...by...). 所以说，老百姓可怜不是？(北京 and Non-北京) -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133881@0)
              • It's same. I am sure bj can not afford it. Every individual except BJness owes to it. -guest:farmer; 2001-7-16 (#133825@0)
                • O, I see, this is why they are so happy! -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133837@0)
            • 什么也不干，只办奥运么？社会福利呢？军事开支呢？教育？医疗？养活干部？养活干部的儿子？儿子的朋友？ -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133821@0)
            • There are 6 billion people in the world. Why not you divide by 6 billion? -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133822@0)
              • 中国为洛山矶奥运会出过钱么? 美国联邦政府为洛山矶奥运会出过钱么? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133826@0)
                • Who knows? If you know, tell us how much? -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133827@0)
                • I heard from the newspaper that until last year or the year before last year, people in Montreal still had to pay for their debt for the game in 70s, but not the people in Canada. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133831@0)
                  • Montreal 交联邦税么? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133833@0)
                    • I do not understand your logic? -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133834@0)
                      • 如果其他省都交,而Q不交,对Q而言是不是一种补贴呢?70年代的事我懂得不多但,现在Q是加福利最好的省你不能否认吧? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133844@0)
                        • No, the welfare in Q is better because the taxpayer in Q pay more tax in Canada. It has the highest GST and income tax. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133855@0)
                    • of cause, what do you think? -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133839@0)
                      • 啊? Q交联邦税?真心的问: 是我搞错了? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133853@0)
                        • 不交联邦税？那别的省得求着魁省快点独立 -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133859@0)
                          • Thanks.I made mistake.Hehe,it's the immigrant consultant misled me. -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133866@0)
            • WHEN YOU BUILD A BIG PROJECT. YOU DON'T CELLECT MONEY IN 7 YEARS AND GET A SINGLE AMOUNT EVERY MONTH. U NEED A LOT OF MONEY AT ONE TIME. where do gov't get those big amount at one time? -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133841@0)
              • Only way, rob the weakest, poorest peasants and other poor people in the city. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133860@0)
                • How do you buy your house in Canada? Use your brain, my dear. -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133864@0)
                  • Anyway, at the end they have to rob the peasants to pay the bill, why not just rob them at the beginning. Rob them now or later, make difference? -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133868@0)
              • Do you know how the financial world is running? If they think like yours, there will be no banks and no investments. -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133861@0)
                • borrowing from those banks costs u a lot. "BORROWITNG" FROM THOSE POOR FARMERS cost u nothing. there's no interest on it. -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133865@0)
                  • smart! -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133872@0)
                  • So far I have heard nothing about "BORROWITNG FROM THOSE POOR FARMERS". I wonder where you get these information. Or just your imagination? -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133879@0)
                    • If i can heard it from news paper, i'll definitly support this game. At least, the goverment is honest. -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133885@0)
                      • Yes! -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133890@0)
                    • it is so simple, 80% of chinese ppl are farmers, most of them are poor... -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133887@0)
                    • 很多反对的声音源于这一条.即使北京市长说了不要老百姓捐款. 很多人人为政府不可信,所以仍然坚持这条.只是这次是鱼提出这样的问题,让我奇怪. -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133888@0)
                      • 如果北京申请奥运，不花外地老百姓的钱，我想除了北京人，没人会反对。IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSSINESS。可惜的是，这可能吗？ -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133894@0)
                        • 这就是为什么只有 Tonroto有人反对奥运，其他省就没人反对 -- 又不关自己的事 -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133902@0)
                    • gov't has a annual budgeting planning every year. if there will be a big spending in one year, they will borrow money. if govt issue a bond, and a farmer bought the bond, you can say gov't borrowed from the farmer. -foureyecatcat(飞翔的鱼); 2001-7-16 (#133917@0)
                  • Borrowing, no there is no borrowing, just use rob instead of it. -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133880@0)
                  • 小宝你以为没有所谓“捐款”这个形式，你就不承担你的share吗？羊毛出在羊身上啊！？你照样在付出！不管是borrowing, 还是rob, 都是老百姓的血汗钱。 -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133896@0)
                    • 你觉得彩票怎么样? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133904@0)
                      • 彩票是个好主意，但好象是在湖南吧，已经出过事了。不是我总是怀疑，而是太多的事出乎想象了 -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133915@0)
                        • 哎,出事的不少,不光是湖南. 但是因噎费食也是不行的,是不? -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133926@0)
                      • 彩票，说好听点叫彩票，不好听点就叫政府开的合法赌场 -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133941@0)
                    • Borrow和Rob放一起..其本质是不一样的呀!在国外过的谁不问银行Borrow, 不能说成是Rob啊! 硬性摊派我也不会支持,但是你不能说要钱光有Rob一条路吧. -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133924@0)
                      • 逻辑？谁也没说他们一个意思。鱼说到中国政府borrow农民的钱,LOST说与其说borrow,不如说rob.我只不过quote刚才的争论罢了。***本人更支持Rob一说。下次读仔细点。敲中文比绣花还难。 -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133932@0)
                      • Borrow, BORROW 的钱最后要谁来还哪 -xuhp(LOST); 2001-7-16 (#133938@0)
    • 我们为中国办奥运而痛心，是因为我们仍然爱着祖国，我们的父老乡亲仍然在那里生活，我们认为父老乡亲们会因奥运而负担。如果是别的国家，who cares. -kiwi(kiwi); 2001-7-16 (#133903@0)
      • 对头！有人还说反对奥运就是卖国汉奸，真是站着说话不腰痛！ -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#133908@0)
    • 中国老百姓对政府花钱不大敏感，从来没管过。但在这儿，花个一百万都得在议会里吵半天。新闻媒体天天紧盯着，一旦有一点资金去向不明，他们的机会就来了。 -rock_jack(The Door); 2001-7-16 (#133911@0)
      • 错误。中国政府不是老百姓选的，所以收钱时不管老百姓死活，花钱不受百姓管。 -kiwi(kiwi); 2001-7-16 (#133947@0)
        • Would you please be so kind to give me an answer @ #133946 -goodbaby(小宝); 2001-7-16 (#133954@0)
      • 中国政府的钱向来都是黑箱操作. 谁清楚大家缴的税都怎么用掉了? -xiaoxia(xiaoxia); 2001-7-17 (#134563@0)
    • 南京人都说，江苏要更倒霉了。北京每年都要吃掉江苏，等地大量的税收，现在更欢了。 -guest:; 2001-7-16 (#134454@0)
    • 纸上谈什么兵？ -guest:坚决支持北京2008年奥; 2001-7-17 {313} (#134501@0)
      To:飞翔的鱼
      还有什么可争论的呢？2008年就在北京举办奥运会，铁定的事实，你能改变吗？举办奥运会有政治，经济，军事各方面的意义。难道只是花点钱的问题吗？难道江泽民比你傻吗？小人物就是小人物，有什么可争的呢？jealous 北京？你可以移民北京吗。国内能挣钱的人你也嫉妒吗？有本事回去挣啊！别在这里发酸了，打着忧国忧民的旗号。
      • 人家只是就事论事，你在说什么呢？怎么，拿不出道理，辩不过人家，就来人身攻击这套了？ -guest:; 2001-7-17 (#134525@0)
        • 看来我们看问题的角度不一样，台湾的媒介这几天都是在讨论北京办奥能带来多少商机，收益多少，台海安全问题，而我们在这里又在做什么呢？？？ -bolomi(bolomi); 2001-7-17 (#134856@0)
          • 台湾当然开心啦。至少未来7年他们安全了 -petit(流浪人间的孩子); 2001-7-17 (#134983@0)
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