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  • 工作学习 / IT杂谈 / Cherish every job opportunity -jabber(jabber); 2001-9-28 {2754} (#212807@0)
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I hired a graduate from Chemistry Department of Fudan University two weeks ago. The reason is very simple: He is my Alumni, he works very hard, he has solid Java background, I have known him for two years, I think he is good, I told my CTO and lead developer that I need this person.... That's it. This guy has been in the United States for more than 10 years, and his English is not very good. I did not interview him because I told my CTO and lead developer that I didn't want to do that. After the interview, my lead developer told me that my Alumni is easy-going. He asked me my opinion and I told him I wish to secure a job offer. Of course, he took my suggestion and pushed my Alumni before CTO.

    One week ago, my lead developer, DBA and I interviewed another job candidates for a PL/SQL developer position. This guys has been in bench since April. My lead developer told me he wanted to hire this guy, because our team has too few males. This candidate graduated from another famous University in Shanghai. Obviusly, he is qualified for our position because he has more 10 years of Oracle experiences. Halfway, our President and CEO joined the interview. He asked me to ask some questions. I browsed his resume for 5 seconds and found that he claimed some Java experiences. I began to change the topic and our job candidates began to boast his Java level immediately. He talked big and it seemed that he has done a lot of System Architecture work and he knows every thing, from front to back-end. I asked him the following three questions:

    1) What is java.io.Serializable interface for?

    2) In the Java code, we can create either synchronized method or synchronized block. Which one do you prefer?

    3) Write a simple Java testing code. In the main method, we create a java.awt.Frame and set it to be visiable. After the execution of main method is finsihed, that Frame is still there. Why?

    His answer is completely disappoiting. That's OK. Our lead developer had laready told him that we want to hire an Oracle developer and he has already shown his strong background in Oracle. What is still disappointing is his comments on my questions: "You guys are too focused on textbook knowledgement. I am just interested in providing solutions...:" Such an answer is absolutely non-professional. Right after he was walked out by our lead developer, I was stopped by our President and CEO. We are a private company. President and CEO is paramount. He told me he did not like this guy, because he didn't think this guy can fit in the team. In such a case, both I and our lead developer could not push him any more. It's so simple. A job offer is gone, but our candidate may never know the true reason.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 你们公司现在还要人吗？ -sameway(sameway); 2001-9-29 (#212916@0)
      • He is in States. -beibei(beibei); 2001-9-29 (#212921@0)
      • Sorry, we cannot hire people from Canada into USA. -jabber(jabber); 2001-9-29 (#213139@0)
        • Not so many people are interested in working in the States after 911 attack. -cornflakewhite(cornflake); 2001-10-2 (#214984@0)
    • I guess the candidate should show great interesting on the job, at least he could not appear too picky to the questions asked. -pyramid(金字塔); 2001-9-29 (#213074@0)
      • Happy to share with you. -jabber(jabber); 2001-9-29 {963} (#213138@0)
        That job candidate graduated from the computer science major of Shanghai Communication Universityin 1983. His working experiences outnumber the sum of mine and my lead developer's. So what?

        From the very beginning, I found he was not professional and his personality is problematic. He waved his hands too frequently in the interview. In a job interview, one's remark should be water-proof. In any case, one cannot do the following things:

        1) prove that interviewer's questions are stupid or meaningless

        2) prove that he/she is superior to the interviewer technically

        Honestly speaking, my lead developer made a deal with me before we interviewed this candidate. If he did not make our CEO and President angry, we would make an offer even he failed all of my Java questions.

        Before we interviewed hi, our lead developer called him and we have already known that he has been home for half a year, and he is eager to get this position.
        • It is reasonable. If one regard the job he wanted as bullshit and the interviewers are idiots, he should establish a company by himself. -pyramid(金字塔); 2001-9-29 {839} (#213171@0)
          But on the other hand, the reason maybe not his personality, he perhaps just lacks the experience for interview skills. One of my friend in China alwasy failed the interview with the same supid attitude. He always discussed deeply with the interviewer of one special topic and sometimes even argued with the officer. Then after half years passed by without finding a job, he may experienced too many failure on job searching, his way was changed. He was thinking about himself and reevaluated his capability. He did not sustained the critical manner and find a good job soon. The very important thing for a job seeker is that he should be kind and easy going just like what you have said and try to leave a good impression to the interview. By thus if currently there are no postions for him, maybe the opportunities will be in the future.
    • So you know the candidate saying big,but you can give him a sword in his heart. Maybe you do a right thing or maybe u should give him a chance to proven himself....... -aix_ca(天生好学); 2001-9-30 {826} (#214146@0)
      ...lots of new immigrant need a chance to proven himself or herself in working environment. You know the current job market environment is not too good for new comer. So most new immigrant must write some false information in his or her resume for applying any kind of job. Otherwise they never can get a job. And because this reason, most recuriter doesn't trust our experience which was written into our resume who come from China.

      So the guy killed by u question will write that he is Seinor in Java Programming next time inorder to get a job.

      Why?Just like you say "he doesn't know the true reason"
      Another Word in chinese "得饶人处，且饶人", 别总往命门上捅，尤其是对中国人。
      他们都非常聪明、勤劳。他们都有一颗善良的心，来到这里无非是想活得更好。
      不知道你来自于那里，也许我们是同乡，也许我们曾经相识在东方。
      • Happy to share with you -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-1 {101} (#214306@0)
        You have completely misunderstood me! I wihsed to hire him but his big mouth betrayed himself! Ahahah
        • Sorry for makemistake with u. -aix_ca(天生好学); 2001-10-1 (#214506@0)
      • The same kind of candidates exist in China also, I believe. -pyramid(金字塔); 2001-10-1 (#214358@0)
    • I think, jabber just did right thing, he has to be professional, and he has his situation. -babyface(Tracy); 2001-10-1 (#214284@0)
    • Jabber, you're from Fudan Chem? which year? -mocha(Mocha Java); 2001-10-1 (#214527@0)
      • I graduated from Nuclear Science Department of Fudan University, which was also called Physics No.2 Department. -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-2 {173} (#214892@0)
        I majored radioavtive chemistry. During the first three years of my colleage life, I had classes with those folks from Chemistry Department. Eh, twenty years have elapsed!
    • I think you were asking the wrong question, jabbor, and you were being unprofessional, he's not applying for java programmer... -mocha(Mocha Java); 2001-10-1 (#214530@0)
      • I have previlege to ask any questions before our job candidates -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-2 {1125} (#214903@0)
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛My questions are not wrong. I cannot imagine that a developer with limited skill set is a competent developer. I have previleges to ask any questions ... To make that guy feel easy, I even spoke to him in Shanghainese at the very beginning. We never expect our job candidates know all things in the computer technology. If a job candidate cannot behave themselves as they are cornered by some "unfair" questions, he/she is thought not to be able to fit into our team. Actually, a job candidate should know how to defend himself/herself. For instance, I claim I have experiences in Oracle, DB2, MS SQL, MySQL, Interbase, MS Access, TOAD, ERWIN,... but I always tell the peole that I am no expert in these things. By doing so, I can easily find a way out if I cannot answer some questions. I can tell you: If you ask the interviwer not to ask some types of questions, you will lose a lot of opportunites, if not all.

        It seems you know that Java decompiler ---very first decompiler-- Mocha. I suggest you use NMI's Java decompiler. It is more user-friendly that Mocha. Of course, you may also try Coffaine.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • what is the pratical reason that people use decompile ? -std(std); 2001-10-2 (#214990@0)
        • it's because that guy want the job, so he try to show he can do everything. -blaise(会爬树的老虎); 2001-10-2 {149} (#215001@0)
          Actually, no one can know everything. He already show he is qualified to be a oracle developer. but failed at an unnesesary boasting. A pity for him.
          • Both I and our lead developer wants to hire this guy. But -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-2 {569} (#215007@0)
            But he made our boss unhappy because of his unnecessary comments on my Java questions. Our boss pays special attention to a person's personality. We cannot continue to push this guy at the risk of our own jobs. We interviewed another two job candidates and have hired one of them. Right now, there are so many competent programmers in the pool. I hope all those who get an intervew cherish rare opportunities. Even you want to kill the interviewer, you should restrain yourself before you get a job offer. Only the fittable survives---this is not jabber's advice.
            • but most of employers demand lots of skills. actually, It is impossible now. I have been five years programmer. I know a programmer can't be versed in so many skills. so I suspect if employers in canada know computer -sameway(sameway); 2001-10-3 {124} (#215391@0)
              what should I do? I don't want cheat them, but if I don't cheat them, I will not get a job. Ple help me. jabber and blaise
              • If you want to be 100% honest, I doubt you will any job offers -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-3 {859} (#216029@0)
                Let me ask you a dummy question: Have you found your resume fit into any requirements in the job ads?

                Take Java as an example. Most companies ask job candidates for 2-5 years of experiences. I think very few people from China can fit in this requirement. If you try to explain to the employer: "Hey, I have 10 years of C++ experiences, and I also learnt some Java before I came to Toronto, please give me an opportunity....". Will anybody listen to you?

                I have some skills in Servlet, JSP, EJB, UML, Rational Rose, ...I learned all these things at home before I got a real project. Now I hold a higher position, so I can frankly tell my team member that I am not good at something, say, Rational ClearQuest, and them to show me how to use it.

                You can beef up your resume as you like. But you must be able to defend yourself in job interviews.
        • "I cannot imagine that a developer with limited skill set is a competent developer."和" We never expect our job candidates know all things in the computer technology." 不懂 -scorpio(scorpio); 2001-10-2 (#215131@0)
          • jabber,冯星(新)伟认识不？ -scorpio(scorpio); 2001-10-2 (#215136@0)
            • Sorry, I don't know the person you mentioned......pls come in. -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-2 {511} (#215214@0)
              A good programmer should be an expert in some fields and at the same time knows a lot of other things. If a Java programmer tells his boss that writing SQL statements is not his duty, I don't think his boss will be happy.

              Indeed, everybody has his good points and shortcomings. Job interview is not only a test of job candidtates' knowledge, but also a benchmarking of his personalities. It is very important for us to know how to express our different opinions and how to display our qualifications.
              • Take it easy, it is not your fault of not hiring that poor guy, so u have no obligation to explain anymore. -xinlin(欣琳); 2001-10-2 (#215282@0)
    • 这个人真不幸啊，他落入了你的圈套和陷阱！！！ -simonsun(万水千山总是情); 2001-10-3 (#215411@0)
      • I am more unfortunate than that guy! -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-3 {94} (#215435@0)
        We had to bring some other people for interview, but we have got bored in interviewing people.
        • early bird :-) -birdincage(birdincage); 2001-10-3 (#215452@0)
      • It is not a trick, one should show his/her eager to join the team. -pyramid(金字塔); 2001-10-3 (#215482@0)
    • Jabber, if, the unlucky candidate sent you a follow-up message and asking why he was declined, what would you do? Will you explain to him his strengths/improvement area? -mapmap(恭喜); 2001-10-3 (#215690@0)
      • 恭喜, 恭喜! -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-3 (#215909@0)
      • It is easy! Make whatever excuse I can imagine, say, the hiring plan has not yet been finalized.... -jabber(jabber); 2001-10-3 {862} (#215912@0)
        Only idiots will tell the job candidates the true reason. Some friends in this forum said that the agent asked them to wait for one or two weeks. Actually, it is a kind of excuse. As I entered my present company, my boss told me immediately "I want to hire you". As we hired the people after me, we made decision the second day. Our job references are usually done within a morning.

        I understand the situation in Canada is different from in our company. Canadian companies usually ask people know a lot of technologies, pass several tough written tests, ..., but they still hire some not-so-qualified developers. In my team, not all the people are superstars, but all of them are qualified for their positions. I am very happy to work with these people. I dare to say I have not yet let in a single wrong person in my team (We hired 6 people after me).
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