Topic: 刚才看城市电视“麻辣一言堂”谈论BC教师罢工。前两天坛子上说这里的教育方式好，不太认同。 @枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum

枫下沙龙 / 谈天说地 / 刚才看城市电视“麻辣一言堂”谈论BC教师罢工。前两天坛子上说这里的教育方式好，不太认同。 -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 {636} (#278383@0)
所有来自大陆的家长都在抱怨这里的教师责任感差，懒！孩子错了一道题，只在边上标出错，根本不告诉错在哪里，也不监督孩子改完后要拿回来给他看。这里的老师年薪6、7万，还这样，这叫教育好？记得我在中学小学的时候，读的都是北京师大附属的中学和小学，老师特别负责，重视基础知识和技能的培养外，而且其它特长和人格塑造上机会也很多，各种各样的课外兴趣小组，学校有学生电台和电视台，自己做节目；在老师和学校的帮助下，有很多乐队和演唱组合，都有指导老师，全是免费的；每年有文艺汇演，所有学生都有机会上台表演，我们班排的话剧和歌舞剧现在我都记忆犹新。问问这里的孩子，加拿大的学校也不过如此。没看出有什么特别，除了管理松散。哪位有孩子的朋友，说说这里教育的特点？

Who said their salary is 60,70k? Are you talking about private school or universities? -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278386@0)

High school teacher salary is 65K, department head 70K, principle 80K. my teacher used to show me his pay cheque. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278394@0)

Really? Now I would rethink about the program I take. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278426@0)

as I said below: startup is around 45K of high school teacher. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278428@0)

How about kindergarden teacher? I love to play with kids. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278433@0)

Me too... but my mom go against it... I don't think their paid is high. I've never been to kindergarden in here, so don't know about them. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278444@0)

I used to get the child from school. They only work for 2.5*2 hours a day fooling kids around. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278458@0)

yeah, I love that job too. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278467@0)

so you have any idea how to be one? What kind of education I am supposed to have? -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278479@0)

College will be enough... But don't know exactly how. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278481@0)

What do you mean 'kindergarden teacher'? What do they do? -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278515@0)

You 4 er2 yuan2 -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278526@0)

University professors are around 80 - 120K. I know that because professors with salary over 100K has to be published. And about 30% of them are over in university of waterloo. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278399@0)

一个朋友刚当上电工,半年后27/hr, 作者: =56K 日期: 11-29-01 07:11 -newhonda(honda); 2001-11-29 (#279845@0)

Look Inside -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 {1333} (#278392@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛You are particular. How many elementary school and high school in China can enjoy free band? And in China, teachers FORCE you to do whatever they think it's right for you. And the education is so dead.

In here, it's all about independent. They will help you along the way and YOU have to design your future yourself. Not like in China, the teacher and the parents force you to do whatever they think it's right. In here, every school has free sports teams, interest clubs, you can also join for free. Not like China, only upper class level school provide this sort of stuffs.

The most advantage is the education here is so alive and very close related to the real world, unlike china, it's so dead and so theoratical. For example, I'm only a first year university students, but I have already had over 16 months of working experience, with 8 months professional experience in my field which is Computer Science. In China, university students only study, travel, and play. That's why after graduate, we are so much ready to face the society than them, because we are experienced.

I like this sentense very much. A friend of mine (who's in Zhong Shan University Computer Science) told me in China. "Foreign university graduates are products. While Chinese graduates are semi-products." I hope you get what he meant.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

I don't agree with you. 这里的中小学教育实在不能认同。当然，大学还是不错的。所以还是等孩子大了再接来上大学，比较好。 -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 {1512} (#278499@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I don't know where you had your primary and middle school education.
'about independent', In my childhood in Beijing, my parents gave me enough independent space. But by now I don't think it's right. I remember my mother signed up a painting course for me. I did't like that so I gave up after several times. By now I have hated my parents at all times not to force me to insist on because I was too younge to understand its importance for my geometry, mechanical engineering and UI design of computer in my university and working.

'About free sports teams, interest clubs', in China, there are much more free sports teams, interest clubs. For example, 乒乓球、排球、水上运动，太极拳，羽毛球，溜冰，体操项目等等这里没看见，而这里有的棒球、橄榄球、篮球国内学校全有，而且中学时的训练比这里正规严格的多，不象这里还是象玩，中学队根本没有系统的体能、战术训练（当然只是听朋友孩子说时自己的感受，可能不全面）about interest clubs, 这里有的好象国内全有，倒是国内有的，象男生的缝纫课，音乐上要求必须掌握3种乐器的演奏，记得我选的是钢琴、笛子和口琴。这里根本没有要求。而且可笑的是参加的水平极差，参加了一次朋友孩子（中学）乐队的演出，居然开始是演奏音阶，最复杂的曲子绝对没有超过一个八度，这样的水平还有脸表演，而且家长们还报以热烈的掌声，简直让我哭笑不得。国内随便一个小学的乐队都比他们强。

But I agree with your viewpoints about university education. So I hope my children to take their primary and middle school educations in China and take their university education here, of course after I get married.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

You really don't understand what is the education. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278512@0)

Agree..he doesn't understand the true meaning of Canadian education. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278524@0)

Who said so? -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 {565} (#278513@0)
I was in the Volleyball and badminton team when I was in high school. Again, your case is particular. Not EVERY school in China has a band. My high school was classified as Provincial Level 1 school but we don't have a band, and we don't have a badminton team.

If they just come here for university, they will so different than people who grew up here. In UW, Canadian Born Chinese generally are doing so much better overall in job hurting, studying, partying while a lot of Chinese from main land China only know STUDY and don't know LIFE is not just STUDY.

of course. I think there is a misunderstanding. If our children will work in Canada, your choice is right. But I think they have better future, backgropund and bigger sucess in China. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 {163} (#278535@0)
If they had not living experience of China, they would not have advantage even as a Chinese person. Of course, it is based on your confidence about China's future

With an education in Canada, we can work and prospect in the whole world!. With an education in China, can you (with exception to those a few good universities which account for less than 1% of total students)? -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278538@0)

right! So they should have their university education here. My focus is primary and middle school. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278549@0)

As I told you, your child won't do as good as others if she/he only comes here for university. Local students will do so much better than him OVERALL including job hurting, social skill, networking skill. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278555@0)

But at the same time local students have no enough skills to work in China or do their business in China -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278661@0)

You can't pick one of the best elementary school in China to compare to Canadian elementary school overall. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278519@0)
As I said, in here, the teachers show you the way, you have to walk through it by youself. In China, parents and teachers carry you through it! -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278521@0)

My friend who is a teacher have been working for 15 years, his salary is 60K. Comparing to other occupation, teacher's salary is lower. -lilyba(Sunshine); 2001-11-28 (#278404@0)

15yr should be around 65K... starting is around 45K and then for teacher, MAX you can get is 65K. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278408@0)
this is not the issue, thing is that the job stability is high, consider how important it is in NA. they have very strong union. also benefits are good, paid vacations are much longer than any other type of workers. -tongbuyong(通不用); 2001-11-28 (#279059@0)

教育方式 -lilyba(Sunshine); 2001-11-28 {606} (#278441@0)
我给朋友推荐了张义谋的电影：一个都不能少，反应贫困地区的教育状况，（DX千万不要扔砖），他看完后，又在他的课堂里放映。他告诉我他的学生很喜欢这部电影。在加拿大的ELEMENT SCHOOL，6年级学习中国文化，7年级学习日本文化。
当然看张的电影，也是清者自清，浊者自浊。他首先给他的学生解释“中国的大都市，上海北京也象任何大都市一样摩登；但中国贫富差距大，电影反应的是贫困地区的教育现状。”
我记得他还给我讲过他上的一堂有关“第三世界”的课。他们定义的“第三世界”的概念是贫富差距大。
我感觉这里的教育是通过一种讨论来建立概念，我认为这样更能够使学生建立独立思考的习惯，而这正是我们这些在中国教育方式下失去的最宝贵的品质。

agree. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278446@0)
But some really smart guys are still doing pretty well in every field. Maybe it is just because we are not smart enough. Hehe. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278450@0)

Now you know the difference. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278451@0)

I always know that. So don't expect too much from myself. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278466@0)

Me too, only a good gf is enough. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278472@0)

hehe. But I am afraid I lost the chance. Wish you better luck. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278475@0)

are you a guy or a girl??????? -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278482@0)

受教育，独立思考是每个人的权利，NOT ONLY SMART GUY。 -lilyba(Sunshine); 2001-11-28 (#278453@0)

But stupid guy can't think independently... They need someone else to design the road for him to follow. That's what pig head means. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278462@0)
Yes, I know that. Just image at the time we implement the system in China. More garbage or more smart guys? -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278464@0)

China is growing.. so always more garbage and more smart guy. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278468@0)

同意。不过国内除了政治观点是禁区外，其它方面还是鼓励独立思考，培养个性的。比如：那时我们学校的风格就是“双基教育”基本知识和基本技能。基本技能就是建立独立解决问题的能力。 -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278510@0)

You can't compare one school. You have to look at the whole system. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278528@0)
You know how many high schools in China? How many schools are like yours? Have you seen that movie? Have been to poor area of China? -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278529@0)

agree! But I think our children have no opportunities to go to that kind of school. Those children who go to that kind of school have no opportunities to live in Canada. Right? -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278541@0)

Sorry don't get you. -zhu(每天都想着LP的猪头); 2001-11-28 (#278543@0)
I attend 6 yrs elementary schools and 3 yrs Jr. High and 1 yrs Sr. High in china, And my school doesn't even have a band, no interest club at all, sport team only offer to a few best sport students, and I'm in Canada! -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278544@0)
and I enjoyed so much about my high school here because I was in the badminton, volleyball team, I got my lifeguard, I'm in the computer club, student senates.. which I will have no opportunity to do in China. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278547@0)

I think they are very general programs in Beijing and Shanghai. You would get them very easy except your English. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278562@0)

You can't use two city to represent the whole country. I'm in Guang Dong, the richest province in China. And if our schools are like that, don't even need to mention other provinces. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278572@0)

Not to mention my elementary school, Jr. high and Sr. high are all Provincial Level 1 school.. i.e. Sheng3 Zhong4 dian3 -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278550@0)

Which province? Too bad! Why do you disclose them to Department of Education? -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278560@0)

Guang Dong..... what can I tell the Department of Education? Tell them we don't have a band? Do they give a damn? The school just wants us to get high mark so they can continue to be Zhong4 Dian3. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278561@0)
And I think in Chinese school, equal opportunities do not exist. The teacher thinks you are good, she will select you to join something. The teacher thinks you are not good, don't even think about it. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278567@0)

国内所有人文科学，自然科学领域也同样受政治影响。又有什么领域不受政治影响呢 -lilyba(Sunshine); 2001-11-28 {466} (#278546@0)
我记得上大学（或高中），一个著名的考题是：人性是否有阶级性？
在自然科学领域，要在马克思的唯物论指导下进行。所以我原来工作的科研所，领导（包括技术领导）必须是党员。培养的是“又红又专”
而我们所学的马克思主义不过是断章取义。
再说历史，初中时，我始终不理解司马迁为什么会被阉割，现在算明白了，他不想当“婊子”。
再说语文：我对杨朔（是这个名字吧）的香山红叶嗤之以鼻。想想我高中时还不是语文特好，有鉴赏力呢，但所谓学术权威能把这样滥的文章收入课本，怎么不是误人子弟呢。

当然有缺点，我们要找出的是优点多缺点少的地方。 -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278552@0)

You should understand more about Canadian system, see how many people have different opinion than you?? You should consider why they all have different opinions. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278556@0)

sure -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278564@0)
You had middle school education here? -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278569@0)

From Gr. 10 to Gr. OAC, finish first semester in Gr 1, Sr. High in China. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278573@0)

Sorry! Gr. 10 to Gr. OAC? -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278584@0)

Gr. OAC = Gr. 13 -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278588@0)

oh by the way, we do have interest club, but you enjoy during the summer holiday. But it's not offered through your high school or elementary school, Unlike here, you join through out the school year. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278578@0)

I don't know what you refered to. In China, interest clubs are more busy in summer holiday. For example, our school's volleyball team had detailed training plans in summer holiday. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278589@0)

school close in my city during summmer. We join interest club offer by other social organizations.... -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278598@0)

Which city? It's terriblly against the policies from Central Government. Disclose them! At least you should send a email to The Department of Education. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278613@0)

I don't really think it's against it. School only open for Gao Er and Chu1 San3 student to prepare for the exam. Other teachers are in holiday. It's common in the whole guangdong province. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278618@0)

我觉得大家说的，可能不是什么大缺点，我想说说我认为国内教育的主要缺点，不知大家是不是认同。主要是在人格形成方面。 -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 {749} (#278609@0)
1、这里的孩子通常心境平和，国内环境里教育出来的孩子通常有些急功近利和为达到目的不择手段，对人没有这里的孩子来的坦诚（原因不说了）
2、国内的孩子好象虚荣心比较强，对名利看得过重，好象“不成功便成仁”的感觉（不知和家长和老师的教育关系）
3、（找不出具体的词，将现象列举如下）上周参加个教会的活动，有台湾、本地和大陆的中国人，同样是年轻人起来讲话，人家都大大方方的很自然，尽管观点不一定很精辟。可看我们大陆来的，好几个不知道都是哪些学校毕业的，开始不愿意起来说话，推辞不过，起来涨红着脸，紧张的要命，说的话倒是估计是想好的，就是表达不清，话不完整，简直能把人别扭死。我觉得这些在人面前说话的能力，都是小学和初中就应该学会的基本能力呀，怎么回事？就这么几句话都说不清，要参加个话剧表演或者要发表个演讲，上台还不把词全忘了。又不是向领导汇报，有什么紧张的？

In China, MARK is everything. As long as your mark is high, parents' happy, teachers' happy, but you are not happy...... -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278614@0)

After you get to used to it, you are happy too because your parents are happy, and your teachers are happy. -lilyba(Sunshine); 2001-11-28 (#278635@0)
These parents are low-level. Don't care about them. Most of our parents are not like that. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278862@0)

I agree. That's the reason that I want my kids educated in Canada not in China. -wade(wade); 2001-11-28 {364} (#278627@0)
The education in elementary school and middle school in China was very intensive but most of the stuff we learned would be totally useless in real life. I find it is very important that how education shapes a person and the personality being built through years in schools would determine how this person going to contribute to the society.

Just my two cents.

但是加拿大的教育我相信是在培养一个合格的公民，但是这里恐怕培养不出多少伟人。如果你想让的孩子名垂青史，还是到中国去的好。中国的教育更象是培养伟人的教育（比如大人物的几个要素：心计，手腕，心狠手辣） -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278647@0)

A country can only work properly with a lot of qualified citizen who knows how to take responsibility. -wade(wade); 2001-11-28 {557} (#278667@0)
I guess it's not up to a parent to design the life of a child. What a parent can do is to provide more chances for the child. And I think most of children are average children and they are going to be happy here. If the child is really smart or parents really want to design a better life for her/him, you can sent him/her to private school. The education system works better here(at least now) and Canada does have a handful of Nobel winners. As the kind of great guy you mentioned, I am happy that Canada does not produce suck kind of "great" people.

That example is a little not representative. Change one -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 {211} (#278685@0)
----I don't find out any famous gymnastic player of Olympic in Canada. Because they need to be trained from their very little ages and very hard. So Canadian just can get very few Golden Plate in Olympic Games.

How about pair figure skating. Canada have the world champion. A lot of young girls -wade(wade); 2001-11-28 {579} (#278694@0)
learn figure skate when they are very young. Bad example again. :) The only reason that Canada does not do well in the games just because the funding get cut too much.

I will stop here since it's your choice to figure out what is the best for your child. :) We don't have to agree upon everything. However if I have a choice again, I would definitely chose to go to middle school here not in China. I was from one of the best middle school in my province too. Not enjoy that part of time at all. All I can remember is studying and the rank of my marks in the class. Yuk.

how many people can get happy? how many people can get high mark? a few in the whole school?? That's only 1 No. 1, 1 No.2.... -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278650@0)

That is just the happiness of competition. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278658@0)

after the compeitition, ready to get beat up when the ranking is out.. that's the way it is. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2001-11-28 (#278662@0)

haha! -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278672@0)

A real story -dropoutinmiami(东北的饺子); 2001-11-28 {567} (#278739@0)
I have a friend, who has a 8 years old daughter attending to Grade 2 in an elementary school. My friend is a single father.

One day I visited them. My friend asked the daughter to show him her exam paper. It was 100. After he looked at the paper the second time, he realized she modified the number. It turned out she got 97 instead of 100. She didn't want to be blamed, so she chose to LIE!

It broke my heart! Which is better, be honest and get 97, or lie and get 100?!!!!

I was very mad with my friend. He should not be so strict with a 8 years old girl.

you should encourage her to take part in spy training when she grew up. She would have enough courage and experience at that time. Her tricks wouldn't be found out next time. Of course, she need to be led to correct way. -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278772@0)
possiblly she would become that kind of Great Man.为国家做出巨大的贡献。总比她当个平凡的公司职员更有成就。关键是“引导”。 -chineseman123(问问); 2001-11-28 (#278781@0)

There are more bright classmates in schools of china than in canada. Top of billions students are more clever than Top of millions students. -newhonda(honda); 2001-11-28 (#278714@0)

Another Conclusion: There are more stupid classmates in schools of china than in canada. Top of billions students are more stupid than Top of millions students. -lilyba(Sunshine); 2001-11-28 (#278727@0)