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  • 工作学习 / IT杂谈 / IT/敢路在何方--献给新移民
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛IT 的方向是个很好的讨论并且引发了一场大辩论,北美经济衰退是不容置疑的, IT行业急剧降温冷却,与从去年的高温火暴形成鲜明对比, 911 等 不利的新闻还在一次次地雪上加霜. 失业的IT人在无奈中东突西撞, 在业的幸运儿大多也是战战兢兢, 似乎丢了加薪升职的砝码.
    在多伦多, 计算机从去年最好的职业,一变成为今年所谓的最差的, 大批的LAID OFF程序员找不到下家. 但是实际的市场情况是什么样哪?

    IT 业的出路到底在哪里哪?

    笔者有幸和参加讨论的10位朋友通了电话和EMAIL,希望朋友们能从对话中得到一些启示和帮助。

    (大老鼠 CCIE)你能说一下对现在形式的看法吗?

    统计显示:IT 技术类的职位数量仍然是绝对的高于任何其他职业需求. 而照去年比不同领域比例却发生了很大变化 JAVA, WEB-DEVELOPER的需求比去年减少60-70%, ARCHITECT/ANALYST 减 30%, UNIX,DATABASE,NETWORK管理减少5-10%, NETWORK SECURITY 需求有所增长(30%左右), MAINFRAM, AS/400没变化. 很多种职位空缺显然长期缺乏人才去填补.

    原因:
    1. 技术不过硬
    2. 方向不明确
    3 缺乏面试的技巧
    4 口语水平和加拿大经验


    我只来加拿大两个月, 没什么发言权,但对朋友们说一下我的经验和教训,希望能对大家有个帮助, 我就心满意足了,刚到加, 认为CCIE闭眼也能拿到10K, 两月的无所作为提醒我该了方向,转到安全,几乎天天用户面试,凭我网络上的实力,一周一气拿到6 个OFFER,最后我选了一个最高的

    我认为原因1和2 最重要,英语是所有新移民的难题, 20年30年或一生也说不出纯正的北美英语.(儿童除外),而且我比较反感向鹦鹉一样和别人学语调,不是说英语没用,高技术职位上,技术更重要!

    北美经验更不用说,我能趟平你加拿大,还要什么经验? 当然还是希望大家学扎实技术。

    别的没了,实际上根本没有什么面试技巧,以上都是我个人意见,Cisco and Security 有事Email我:biggestmouse@hotmail.com

    旁注:在假冒Resume, Reference, 蜂拥而来的JAVA, 大多数人还在Link, ESL 纠正口语的时候,大老鼠凭着强悍的实力拿到6 个OFFER, 但他也是根据自己的基础,找到一位高手学了一周安全才转型,的确对大家有点启示。


    ( Rain): JAVA Programmer

    坦率地说,我是去年的JAVA的高手, 现在15 /Hr, 虽然我是程序员,但我看和机械没什么区别,没有技术可言,这是JAVA淘汰的主要原因。大老鼠确实武艺高强,但是对大多数新移民来说,3,4 更重要,而且转行也不是容易的。个行都有存在的道理。

    对我个人而言,我正学防火墙,我语言有优势,来加时间长,办法准备找个稳定的工作

    建议没什么,没有必要急于转行,程序员怎么了?我们创造财富,我们是蜜蜂,虽然现在的趋势是2-3K/Y,但是最多还是5-6K, 再说,我们还可以拿EI,挺好!

    旁注:对Rain 来说,3,4 比技术更重要,But I am wondering why she recommends other programmers stay tuned While she already begin to learn firewall? Let them stay until laid-off?? But I agree with her that for new comers, English is still an important thing, I think.


    (大李) 原清华管理博士后。

    我来这里两年了,一直做一些LABOR,参加了IT 的方向讨论,IT对我来说,是一个全新的领域,通过反复,认真的调查, 我准备先做网管, 以后再往安全上发展的道路。原因如下;

    程序员现在还是多于网管和其他行业,但是不可忽略的是, 现在程序员的确是1000倍或更多的人在争夺区区几个职务,很难选择水平高低,进一步说,不过是简单的重复性的工作,何难之有?虽然他们创造财富,但坦率来说,5Dollar/Hr(含TAX) 是不会很远的。

    还有一种说法是Programmer转DBA 或多或少Manager, 但我知道我几斤,做这种活英语是前提。

    网管虽然相对少些, 但是稳定的多,CCIE 拿OFFER 快, 而且一天拿10 个也不稀奇,令人敬佩,水平鹤立鸡群,再说,我不想不到35岁以后被开除(Programmer),我是重新开始,就应脚踏实地,宁可累点,踏实!

    旁注:虽然大李的话说的有点偏激,但仔细想一想,也有道理,靠简单的重复性劳动拿高工资已经黄鹤一去不复返了。

    还有几位朋友的EMAIL, 挣得同意后,再发表。更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 路在脚下--- IT CLUB 本月可以活动了----终于搞到了场地。
      • 朋友,有好事得带我一个,我赶紧报名,多少钱?
        • 大家交流学习一下, 互相受益! 免费参加。
          • But could you please tell me the exact address? please add me to the list!
            • 在KEELE/FINCH, 一个铁哥们那里能借到地方
              • Thanks
              • How can I contact you, email or phone?
          • 请问大侠
            HI ZCAKEN,
            请问IT CLUB 最近有没有活动, 活动场所及活动时间

            PANGPANG
      • 报名!
      • 还能报名吗?有多少人参加啊?
        • 100
          • 那算我一个吧
            • 懒熊, 你现在干什么哪?上学?
              • 还没找到学上呢。有学安全的学吗?
                • Please send an email to Biggest Mouse, he has a good place without money.
                  • Thanks a lot,Security
    • 英雄所见略同!Perfect article, please post the others!
      • 程序员是简单的重复性的工作,何难之有?虽然他们创造财富,但坦率来说,5Dollar/Hr(含TAX) 是不会很远的。
        • 如果我是boss,就凭这句话就可以lay off你。你真的理解software development了吗。
          • I believe my JAVA Skills are better than your software development, although only 1 month experience for me, tell me your experience
            • 我95年就学Java,我有一年多Canadian Java经验,你说呢?
          • We can discuss some details by email or just here
        • 老大,你不是大牛人就是一大傻瓜,说说你写过什么牛程序
          • All programmers in canada and states are all my students
        • 大花猫啊,你写过什么方面的程序,精通哪个方面,敢说这话
          玩过30天JAVA是巴,我敢说你连JAVA的毛都没摸到一根,真敢牛皮哄哄阿!我遇到过很多写程序的,有的一小时80$,还说自己懂得太少,学无只境,你真得在胡说八到!绝对是误导
        • 真的?那什么不是"简单的重复性的工作"?CCIE之流才是"简单的重复性的工作",需要什么创造性?纯粹是经验积累。
          常常看到有些人拿个证书就牛皮烘烘,其实不过是专攻不同吧了,用来调试、监测、配置的软件还不是程序员开发出来的?等程序员5Dollar/Hr(含TAX) ,其他相关职位能有多少?
          • 有道理,大胆预测--CCIE很快就会和当年的MCSE一样。。。。。。。。
            后果如何, 就不用我讲了。
            • 朋友, 想法幼稚,可以给你5 年的时间准备CCIE
              • 其实很多人没有CCIE证书,主要是没有环境。真要说要多少本事,我看未必。如果CCIE的考证费用、CISCO的设备不是那么贵,考个CCIE的费用和MCSE差不多的话,你看看是不是天底下都是CCIE?
                • Although I am a programmer, but you thoughts really TOO 幼稚!!
                  • 也许!不过现在争也没意义,过几年就知道了。
                    • Hi, my friend, you 'd better have some BASIC concept , ask your friends what is CCIE, even it is a little bit expense, if we can pass it after 10 times, millions of people will pass it! do you know why so little????
                      • 我说过了,有条件接触CISCO的设备的人太少了。
                        • 朋友,的确天真烂漫,实际上CISCO设备哪里都有,价钱也不贵,若能保证我10次,20次能通过,即使100 次,我也考,一年钱就回来,但谁能保证??知道点基本知识,不会出同样笑话!但别气馁!
                          • 哦!
                          • 朋友,你才是天真烂漫得可以。我不是网络专家,但我知道光琢磨CISCO的低端设备是绝对过不了CCIE。
                            拿到这个认证的人少主要还是条件受限。同样在程序员中开发应用级软件的竞争激烈,因为人人有条件学。但底层软件竞争相对少一些,因为不是人人都有环境的。无他,都是对环境有要求,所以把大部分人拦在圈外。
                            • 握手握手,有空请你吃蜂蜜。
                              • 不是我想抬杠。我身边好多CCIE的朋友都没有这麽狂,这麽乐观。他们都是在国内第一批作网络的。说到底是市场需求问题,任何东西一多了就不值钱。程序员如此,CCIE同样如此。
                                • 一看就知道你是上海人,国内第一批作网络的全在清华,在这里别开玩笑了,上海有大学吗?????
                      • 其实我觉得能考出CCIE的人还是不简单的,但如果条件许可,CCIE并不是那么高不可攀。
                        我的观点,网络管理也好,安全也好,不过都是软件(硬件)的使用者,正因为该类软件(硬件)的使用环境比较特殊,或者不太好用(比如ORACLE的数据库维护),能够有机会用的人就少,所以会用并用的好的人就少。因此物以稀为贵,能证明自己用的好(也就是考出了证书)的人就受欢迎。什么时候该软件(硬件)用的人多了,或者容易用了,CCIE们就没有那么吃香了。看看过去的程序员,再看看现在,不是一样?开发工具越做越傻瓜化,微软都已经开始采用编程机器人了。等网络管理的软件也这样智能化的时候,网络管理靠经验的时代就过去了,一个网络专家的成长周期也会变得越来越短,到时候就不会那么供不应求了。
                        • 比上次言论有进步,但是还是不合逻辑,你100% 是程序员,脑子里没有一个BIG PICTURE, 但别气馁,进步就不会到LAY-OFF 地步!
                          • 我都说我不是程序员了。我只是对电脑感兴趣的电脑爱好者罢了。你那么喜欢踩低别人抬高自己就随你的便好了,脑子里有BIG PICTURE的“程序员”!
                            • 你太敏感了。我也是程序员,别误会, 争论之中交朋友!
                              • 你脑子有病呀!我在这里讲了两次我不是程序员。真不知道你要是写程序会怎么样!真的没有被LAY OFF?
                                • 别笑我, 真快了,准备回国混个职务, 你哪?
                                  • 怪不得!我没有入籍是不打算回去的了,反正也不缺钱花。
                                    • 但你的确可爱, 天真, 学西方文学的吧?
                                      • ??????
              • 把个人的职业命运寄托在一家公司身上,这是神化认证者的悲哀。没有硬件和软件工程师的创造,也不会有东西给大家来管理,配置和维护了。
                CCIE的神话和CISCO的神话一样,不会太长久。至少在中国,我大学同学中只要是做网络技术支持这一行的,没有几个不是CCIE,大家想想就知道了,可能在国外拿的CCIE要值钱一些。
                • Funny, Do you know how many CCIE all over China? all over the world? TOO 幼稚!!
                  • 至少我知道,中国来的CCIE有在加拿大找不到工作的,我一个是CCIE的同学马上要从加州回中国,原因是不好混。就是在中国,CCIE的身价也一直在跌。
                    程序员不要自高自大,但也决不要妄自菲薄。照现在的趋势,CCIE滥市的趋势不可阻挡。
                    • 喜欢吃蜂蜜的小熊, yes, it is truth, However, a CCIE is still 10 times salary than Programmers, "我大学同学中只要是做网络技术支持这一行的,没有几个不是CCIE" what is your university?
                      • 老兄,我真是服了你。上交大电子系只要是毕业后一直在网络这一行混技术饭的很多都是。你这话在一两年前说我没意见,但也肯定没有10X这麽多。鉴如此,你现在趟入这个极有前途的职业还正是时候。
                        • HA 上交大电子系. It is Nothing, here is Norther Amercian, also I know CCIE allover the word around 5000上交大电子系, 3000????懂点基本网络概念,你怎么让别人笑掉大牙哪
                          • 一两年前就排到5000号了,前1000号由CISCO预留。我是没有什麽网络概念,幸好身边还是有不少网络高手。但我觉得您思路不清,逻辑混乱,好好看看我的贴子再跟贴。无怪乎您经常笑掉大牙,还是小心点,这里看牙很贵的。
                            • 但你说的太夸张了,我们清华个个都是CCIE,连新生都是,你信吗? 这正是新移民的最大弱点,不知道自己几斤,涮2年盘子就老实了,我来加前在中国CISCO, 想知道真正的数字吗??
                              • 有多少个CCIE? I don't care. 好像你现在还很狂嘛,两年盘子还没刷够吧?中国CISCO, so what? 我也接触过一些,有个别人我还真瞧不惯,狂得不知道自己姓什麽?无怪乎股票疲软如此。
                              • 要知道个数字上CISCO的网站一查就知道了,好象不用专门来问你吧!
                              • Bullshit! You do not posses the right to represent TsingHua.
                  • 我听说全世界有2511个CCIE,其中约86%,也就是2261人在美国。
              • When did you prepare for the CCIE? Are you sure CCIE existed 5 years before? If somebody got CCIE certified by preparing 5 years, definitely he is a kind of idiot!
          • 各行都有存在的道理,虽然程序员的工资蒸蒸日下,但他们是值得敬佩的
          • Cehckall, you really NEED check yourself! 虽然我也是程序员,但至少比你懂点基本网络概念,你怎么让别人笑掉大牙哪?
        • Certificates are useful in non-professional companies. R&D engineers never have certificates but they can design and develop CISCO's product other than use them.
          • I am fully agree with you, also I think this is a wrong way for some new comers ONLY for certificates!
        • 如果那一天真的到来的话,做IT技术支持和维护的人可能是 ZERO Dollar/H.
          • No, I dont think so, also I am a programmer as you, I believe it is true
          • 喜欢吃蜂蜜的小熊, 咱们不能拒绝现实,互相攻击没用,你能否认大批程序员下岗吗????虽然我也是程序员,咱们可以做MANAGER 啊!
            • 现在什么人不下岗?
            • 确实,程序员太多,所以下岗的很多;但大家都去CCIE,CCIE下岗的也会很多。中国人起哄的本事绝对天下第一,自从CCIE可以在北京考后,身价跌了不少。Lab考试中间的猫腻我亲眼见过,听过的太多。
              • Is it rreally for CCIE can be done in China? that is a bad news
        • 胡说, 懒得和你讨论了
    • 建议列入新移民手册,还有,大白兔,赶紧把其他的给我EMAIL 来,谢谢!
    • 里面的观点80%不赞同。哎,懒得说了,没时间打这么多字。没事大家读读jabber的帖子吧再仔细想八!
      • Hi, I 'd like discuss some questions with you here or we can commuciate by email, talk to you soon.
    • Good Article!!
    • 同意语言是第一要素,不过对于java程序员并非只能去转CCIE,否则CCIE会和现在的java程序员一样多。看看下面的文章,或许你可以获益。
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Succeeding as a developer in today's economy
      by Ed Roman, Founder and CEO
      The Middleware Company
      http://www.middleware-company.com/
      October, 2001


      Overview
      The economy has hit everyone hard. But the impact on IT developers has been staggering. For the first time since I moved to Austin TX, I actually know many out-of-work developers who are hunting for jobs. I also know lots of developers who are fearful of losing their existing jobs.

      This phenomenon is occurring across the country. Cynthia Morgan, vice-president of content at Techies.com, reported that in October of last year, nearly 16 percent of all posted IT jobs required Java skills; in March 2001 it dropped to just more than 13 percent, a likely reflection of the loss of jobs due to the shakeout in the dot-com business.1

      And the competition is increasing. 78 percent of colleges have already made Java a mandatory course for their computer science and MIS departments.2 These graduates are highly talented and ready to take on the world. They will only add to the talent pool.

      So what's a developer to do? Sure, we can all hope that things turn around and that the economy improves. But what if it doesn't? The smart developers are preparing for the inevitable--darwinism. Only the most fit creatures will survive. So how can you ensure your survival? That's the subject of this article. If you care about ensuring your survival, I urge you to read on.



      Supply and demand
      We live in a capitalist society, where all markets are driven by supply and demand. For example, the cost of apples goes up if there are fewer apples than the number of people who want to buy apples.

      The same is true for developers. The cost (salary) of a developer goes up if there are fewer developers than there are jobs. This is what happened in 1998-1999. But now the reverse is happening--companies are cutting back on IT spending and there are fewer jobs available. This means salaries decrease, and some developers will be out of work. For example, an interview with an IT staffing firm recently revealed that many Java programmers in the Northeast are working for $50 to $65 per hour, down from $70 to $85 per hour last year. They attribute this lower pay to tightening IT budgets".3

      As another example, "On the Java front particularly, it is common to find people with two or more years of hands-on Java experience; these individuals were quite rare a year or two ago. As the market tightens up and the demand and supply for Java developers evens out, employers will more picky about who they hire and how much they are willing to pay." 4

      Many developers realize this, and accept the fact that they will have lower salaries, take worse projects, and sometimes be out of work. But you don't have to be one of those developers if you take advantage of the imperfections in the system.

      The biggest realization you can come to is that no system is perfect. Even though there might be a supply/demand imbalance, there are always jobs available and there are always people looking for jobs. This is because the supply doesn't always find the demand. Often times companies look for months and never find the developer they're looking for, even though they exist. This happened at The Middleware Company--for months we looked for a director of courseware, and had a very hard time finding a person with the exact qualifications we required for the position.

      The irony of this story is that companies are having just as hard a time as you are! If you're a resourceful developer, then you can take advantage of this imperfection. The key is to have an unfair advantage over other developers, by finding these opportunities through networking with others.

      Why networking? According to a recent survey5 , 32% of salaried developers found their current job through a friend, colleague, former boss, or word-of-mouth. That's almost one out of three Java jobs. You could be capitalizing on these statistics yourself.

      Your action item: Take the time to become well-networked within your community. Focus on knowing the right people and staying in touch. Chances are you will hear about more opportunities than the average developer hears about. Spending the extra effort being social might sound like a waste of time now, but when you consider the lucrative opportunities that may emerge, the value of networking becomes clear. To help your networking endeavors, you may even want to print business cards made up to hand to others, such as internal department heads or others outside the organization, to give you an air of professionalism6.



      Focus on the winning technologies
      Another measure you can take to maintain a high salary level, good projects, and job security is to focus on the right technologies at the right time. You need the ability to identify the technologies which are going to be winning horses and which will be losers, and then place your bet on the winners. This way, you build a skill set that is potentially reusable and useful for years.

      Two good examples of technologies that are successful and will continue to be successful are J2EE and Microsoft.NET.

      J2EE is successful and will continue to succeed because an entire industry is bought into the technology and is marketing it. Microsoft.NET will be successful because Microsoft has it's A-team focused on marketing it, and because it replaces an existing successful technology, Windows DNA.

      In comparison, two good examples of technologies that have questionable futures are Jini and web services. Jini is a great concept--spontaneous communication between devices. But for Jini to become a mainstream technology, it has to achieve critical mass. And it may never do so. Why? Because for Jini to be valuable, other devices must exist on the network that talk Jini. So far, those devices do not exist, because manufacturers of those devices do not see value in using Jini. It's a chicken and egg paradox.

      I suspect that the same is true for web services, which enables B2B collaboration. Again, critical mass is needed for certain web services technologies to take off, and again we end up with a chicken in the egg paradox.

      Your action item: Think about, research, and analyze which technologies you feel are going to be winning horses. You should look for technologies that:

      Few other developers know today
      Are well-marketed and endorsed by industry leaders
      Add immediate value that is far beyond existing solutions at a reasonable cost
      Do not have a 'chicken and egg' paradox
      Have an unfair advantage over other technologies
      Will be popular 2-4 years from now and have positive momentum


      Become an Architect
      Another way to secure your future in an economic downturn is to improve your value to organizations. Take steps to put yourself on a par with the best of the best--architects.

      Architects use a deep, low-level knowledge and experience to help make their projects succeed. In recent years, they have been perceived as rare, valuable, and necessary for organizations to succeed. Architects make the most money, are offered the best projects, and have the most options. These open-doors in life empower architects to enjoy greater control of their future. Even though they may cost a bit more, organizations wish they had more of these architects, because the total cost of their projects are reduced when smart, educated developers are at the helm.

      Recent studies confirm this assertion. "It's no surprise demand for Java programmers increases each year. The higher you go on the experience scale, the scarcer the talent pool. Employers are willing to pay premium dollars for experienced Java programmers. Some technology recruiters say salaries have jumped almost 40 percent in the past year." 7

      So what's the secret of the architects? It's actually quite simple. They gain this knowledge and experience because they are always positioning themselves to learn new things. Many I know seem to be able to set ego aside and work happily in a team without much concern for how they rate on the IQ scale. For example, recently my organization held a course called "EJB for Architects" which is a forum for architects to learn from one another. An interesting phenomenon occurred--architects came from all over the world, and put their egos aside to discuss, debate, and learn best practices from each other.

      Your action item: Seek out the best teams within your organization. If you don't have a job, ask around industry organizations, SIGS, and JUGS for companies that unconditionally support top-notch teams. Not only will your projects tend to succeed more, but also you will learn a whole lot more than you ever could alone. This willingness to learn can stage you to become an architect over time. And even if you don't want to become an architect, you will most certainly make you an exceptional developer or programmer, and thus enhance your value in a tight job market.



      Put yourself in the critical path
      Even if you are the best developer on the planet, you may find that you are not offered the best projects, compensation, or that your job is one day in jeopardy. For example, your project could get cut. Or your company could change direction, reorganize, downsize, or merge with another company. You could then be viewed as redundant and thus expendable, because you aren't necessary for the business to achieve its objectives. Can this be avoided?

      The key is to realize that every organization has a critical path. This is the one or two new IT initiatives that are absolutely necessary for the business to achieve its goals. These initiatives must succeed because the business depends on it. For example, if your organization plans to save 5% of its annual revenue through an integrated, electronic supply chain, then that has substantial value. If you are a member of this team, then may be a rare and valuable commodity, because few developers may understand the domain of the critical path. This gives you much more negotiating power.

      Your action item: Be inquisitive. Ask around and find out what initiatives are the most important in your company or in an organization you would like to join. Network with developers on those teams, and prove to them that you have what it takes. First have a sit-down discussion with them, and try to find a mutually beneficial role for yourself. If they're not interested, then offer to help out in any way you can by taking on side projects. If you're tactful about it, you're your perseverance will likely impress them. You may find that they make you an offer to work with them. All it takes is courage.



      Focus on team success
      Many large corporations are institutionalizing teampower across the enterprise. The priority from management is clear: team players lead to team success. By flattening the organization, empowering individuals, and setting up a collaborative atmosphere, they are improving productivity, efficiency, and job satisfaction. And, of course, many lucky Java developers have participated in SWAT teams to build a first-pass slice of a new enterprise Java application. So, when the job market is tight, learning to like being a team player is paramount to both professional and personal success.

      Your action item: Focus on both the team's success in addition to your own success. Try to focus on being teachable and willing to learn from others. Read about teamwork online or in any number of books that detail the principals of effective team play. Seek out classes that help you internalize the basics of being an effective team player. And even if your team doesn't exhibit team-play characteristics, you can still champion the idea and set a shining example. If this happens, then you may naturally become the clearing in which others look to for guidance and support. This positions you as a true leader--one whose power is derived from team loyalty, rather than title. Not only does this give you the financial rewards you're looking for, but even more importantly, it will make you and your team happier and more productive together.



      Conclusion
      To wrap up, here are the best-practices that I recommend to developers concerned about their future survival in this economy:

      Make it a priority to spend time networking with others
      Focus on the winning technologies that will be in high demand in the coming years
      Position yourself to always be learning new things by joining great teams and spending time with user groups
      Identify and go after critical path projects
      Focus on team success by reading or educating yourself on team play.
      By integrating these recommendations into your regular habits, you should be well on your way to a satisfying, stable, and financially rewarding career as a developer.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • Fully agree with you, no need to change, for programmers stay tuned until laid-off and become an architecture, this need your English and almost all new immigrant cannot achieve it(not include children)
      • very good essay. I learned a lot
    • 来一瓢冷水,把老贴子放这里谈谈反对意见。--"IT的方向"是一个好的争论.不过网络安全不是一条好走的路,也并不是一个靠证书就能争取到的职位,更不是速成者的归宿.网络安全也不能说是IT的方向.
      目前IT无热点,网络安全也不会成为Internet经济增长加速剂.

      网络需要安全专家,这份职业赚钱,但需求量永远不会疯涨到人人皆可捞一把的地步.网络安全永远都很重要,但却不能给IT带来收入.这是一个身为IT,却在赚IT钱的职位.

      IT需要向传统产业,向最终用户赚钱.电子交易疯长了一些泡沫,不过他还会卷土重来的.从系统论角度看,一个系统的"源"才是它的发展方向,如果它想膨胀的话.

      为了网络而网络,网络安全会因此比JAVA更快地烂下去而难以找到工作.
      所以,网络安全是一条比较稳妥的路,但不是条需求量很大的宽带路.程序员和安全专家的比例应该超过10:1,试想如果反过来,可能么?

      结论:如果有基础,有经验,有背景,可以咬牙试一试.如果想现在半路出家,以为找到JAVA之后的另一块金砖,趁早还是别想了,这将绝对是个吃力不讨好的路.
      • 你高估程序员和安全专家的比例了吧.我估计要有30:1
        • I dont think so, it should be 30000:1, this is the truth!
    • 唉,看人家干电脑挣钱多就眼红,胡喷一阵。好吧,电脑工作只值$5/hr。干你的餐馆工滋润去吧。
      • Correct, IT still the most high salary careers than others EVEN the economy is not very good
    • Whatever job we do, it is a job. No job is easy.
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I am happy to see that my countrymen succeed in theri careers. However, we cannot always repeat those successful stories. Some people succeed because they are lucky, some because they have paid very high prices, some because they are really genius and talented. But I understand we had better not tell people from their professions.

      Indeed, programmers are just like worker bees. They get a pay by consuming their youth. As a programmer, I don't think I am superior to my non-programmer friends, though my salary is much higer theirs. To keep my job, I need to learn new technologies constantly. On the other hand, some of my friends have a much easier life than I do, and they are really enjoying the life though their salary is relatively low.

      Indeed, network security expert is a very good profession---high pay and high technology. As far as I can imagine, there is a long way for a generic person to become a network security expert . If we believe opportunites, we had better play on programming, database, system administration, .... Of course, some friends are already true security experts. If you are a layman in networking, I sugget you not try to become a security expert---Rome is not built in one day.

      IT shiny days have gone and probably never come back. No matter what job we are doing and we want to do, it is not easy. Take myself as an example: If I lose my job now, I don't know how much time I need to hunt for a new job. All of my team members are working overtime voluntarily because they want to secure their jobs. One of the contractors in my team did the thing in another way: She always delayed her work and maybe she thought it a way to secure her job. But she did not know we have already hired another person. Once the latter comes in, we are going to let her go.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • Good Article, although we can get a job, we CANOT fit into the main stream of North Amercian, Even we can unstand English and can speak it, This is the truth, HOWEVER, we still need a job first
      • 不可多得的好文章!大家不能说程序员,他们向蜜蜂一样耕耘,敬礼!
      • 观点深刻,道出了蜜蜂般辛勤的程序员的悲惨结局,而且没可能转到网络上,因此还是老实地等LAY-OFF吧
      • jabber, jabber, how are you doing? long time no see! Great article and I fully agree with you, no need for a jobm this is the easiest way, anyjob in canada is hard to do, not like china
      • Yes, Good Article, No job is easy!
    • 看了以上各位专家的争论,才发现这种争论自古都有,而且广泛流传。比如左手和右手的故事,五个手指的故事等等。偶有感触,别砸我。嘿嘿。
    • 讨论来讨论去,还得找个工作活下去,什么热,什么能找着工作就学它,在这里浪费时间太可惜了,我自己肯定坚持学安全。
      • I wish you a great success in your career...
        No matter what other people say, a willingful person always sticks to his chosen direction. The terrible thing is not having one's own mind. For instance, some people bought Java books 2 years ago and downloaded C# and .NET 5 month ago and now change their direction to the network security after reading these discussions.

        But I have to say that the market demand for the network security expert is not very large. It is very difficult for a novice to get a first job offer. An experienced network guy is not hot in the market.
        • HI, jabber,jabber, GOOD Article! please keep sending more for some new comers, forus on security and keep going as jabber said.
      • Secrets & Lies Digital Security in a Networked World Written by Bruce Schneier. The security world might not the same as we thought
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛This is a good topic. I have to admit that I am kind of slow when everyone eager to Java. After all, my job has nothing to do with programming. I used to ask jabber about Database because I feel that is the good way to go. But I myself am still doing technical service now.

        Anyway, security is not technical issue only. It is really related to human being. Any security product has their own weakness. Even product is perfect (always not), who can really say people using them properly. If you are working in a big corporate, I believe that you always suffered by poor password setting.
        I know sometime everyone in the group using the same password. Like jabber said, "the market demand for the network security expert is not very large. "
        Even the corporate really has security issue. Usually they don't admit.
        My point here is, do what you really like to do. Don't take a job as a job, take it as your lifestyle. If you really enjoy coding or security, go for it, be expert. You don't need worry how much money you will make. Once you are expert, money is coming....

        I am not any kind of expert. All of you are my teachers. So don't laugh at me if I said something wrong. thanks更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • Good, My friend, keep going, Gods bless you!
    • 太好笑了,几个还没有找到工作的在这里争论IT的前景,CCIE,java这种职位都不适合你们,应该将你们的简历发给盖茨或钱不死,或许他们有个CTO适合你们.
    • up
    • Great Discuss, ALTHOUGH all programmers always claim how intelligent and smart they are, what waiting for them is 1-5 Dollar(tax include) and LAID-OFF, SHOULD BE!!
    • This Article should be read by all new comers and some people who had been liad off and need a hand to find a new direction, so many real GURU here!
    • 您老兄的邮箱满了?还是压根儿就是假的邮件地址?不是给什么学习班做广告的吧?
      • After see your description, You are a Loser, not only lose your job! I hate loser!