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  • 工作学习 / IT杂谈 / I view "IT高手" from China -jabber(jabber); 2001-3-5 {3420} (#30348@0)
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛First of all, I declare that my points of view may be wrong.

    Indeed, my Chinese counrtymen are very intelligent and dilligent. Among them, there are some experts in various fields.

    More and more Chinese programmers are immigrating to Canada. But I have to say that some of them think themselves of as IT experts but in fact they are not.

    1) Some of them were so-called IT managers when they were in China.
    In most cases, these managers are no hands at IT technologies though they may graduated from Computer Science Department of some prestigeous Chinese universities. Unfortunately, Canada is reluctant in entending them manager positions. These people have to join programmer's rank but not all of them would like to admit they themselves are actually laymen. Instead, they often think themselves of as being "IT高手".

    2) Some of them were really workforce when they were in China. Unfortunately, their working skills are legacy in Canada. Since I joined Sailor at this forum, I communicated many people who fall into this category. A quite number of Chinese programmers are still hacking on the following stuff: Delphi, PowerBuilder, FoxPro, COBOL, Lotus Notes...
    Frankly speaking, no matter how experienced you are in these technologies, you will be a dead crab( a Shanghainese phrase) in Canada. If you are "??" in these technologies, you must admit you are no hands in Canada. I am not saying these poeple have no opportunities in Canada. There are some opportunites related to these technologies, but they are few.

    3) "IT高手" on Microsoft technologies. For the reasons we can understand, Microsoft stuff is prevailing in China. In my eyes, Microsoft stuff is good, in particular, good for small business. However, Microsoft technologies are not dominant in Canada, though Microsoft's OS and OfficeSuite are here and there. Hence, those who have played on MS SQL server for a couple of years may find that there are not enough MS SQL servers for them to play. Likely, those who have ever managed a net work of about 150 Microsoft Windows may find that there are few pure Miscrosoft network in Canada.

    4) Any Java "IT高手" from China? Yes, there are some, but only a few.
    Chinese programmer community has been looking down upon Java.
    For this reason, 9 of 10 Chinese Java programmers claiming 3 years of
    Java experiences are telling traveller's jokes.

    5) Who are the true "IT高手" from China? Some C++, in particular, VC++ programmers. C++ is an old lanaguage. It takes people years to become a good hand. Among the programmers I know from China,
    I have witnessed a series of true experts. Unfortunately, Java was so dominating last year that some C++ experts had to embrace Java. Since the beginning of this year, Java is cooling down becausew dot-com's are crashing. So true C++ experts will have a more bright future.

    6) My prejudice. Though many people though they are "IT高手", but I
    think they are not. First of all, if a person just write some Web pages using HTML, JavaScript, ASP, it is very hard to name them experts. If you
    have ever done some DCOM using VC++, or J2EE system (including
    EJB, Servlet/JSP, JMS), or CORBA using C/C++/Java, it is likely that you are a "IT高手".

    7) I am not intereted in disputing with people. I declare I am no expert.
    Bo doing so, I save some friends from wasting time in arguing with me.
    Voila!更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • it is not easy to call anyone an expert in any fields,I agree with you.Keep learning is the most important thing,please give me a direction,I still have enough time to study,to learn,to try....... -sinoguy(泡泡鱼); 2001-3-5 (#30360@0)
      • You don't have plenty of time, trust me! You might be able to get your LP within one year (I guess), and it's really not enough to to fully prepared if you don't even know what to learn or practice. So, HURRY UP! -bloor(bloor); 2001-3-5 (#30365@0)
        • that is my trouble, :( , i don't want to wander in the cold street. -sinoguy(泡泡鱼); 2001-3-5 (#30369@0)
      • Man, don't ask people what you should do. You should be sel-motivated. However, I can tell you one thing ... -jabber(jabber); 2001-3-5 {98} (#30411@0)
        MCSE cannot bring you a job. Too many MCSEs. Too few MS networks for new immigrants to play on.
    • Whatever it is all truth, else less guys complained here! -juliancanery(julian); 2001-3-6 {81} (#30892@0)
      Why don't you guys try CDMA , GSM of PCS, Telecommunication, RF and Microwave ?
    • Then, what about unix c programming? I mean i have two years experience on this field. -trafford(老特拉福德的荣耀); 2001-3-7 {151} (#30982@0)
      I had been a team member of a large banking system in which i focused on coding for a communication module based on socket and muti-thread programming.
      • Unic c programmers are a treasure in the market. However, you should also be able to play with C++ on Unix platforms. -jabber(jabber); 2001-3-7 {295} (#31019@0)
        Put it in anaother way, your skill set should be Unix C/C++. Before you come to Canada, you don't understand how stubborn those employers are. They require all the candidates are objected-oriented though they just want to do procedural programming.

        By the way, your nickname is fantastic!
        • Thank you very much. -trafford(老特拉福德的荣耀); 2001-3-7 (#31143@0)
      • C + Shell programming -albxu(Yukon); 2001-3-16 {433} (#33896@0)
        If you're both strong in C and shell programming or Perl (it sounds like you aren't because you've been focused on socket and thread programming) you job opportunitis will be broad.

        The socket/thread experience with C only may find the opportunties in pure IT companies (network company like NT, software company like Netsape and Microsoft.) If you can have some C++ experience then you will have more freddom choosing you job.
        • “opportunitis will be broad.“ in what area? -guest:Yukon?; 2001-3-16 (#33941@0)
        • ok, thank you for ur suggestion. -trafford(老特拉福德的荣耀); 2001-3-18 {335} (#34222@0)
          i am involving into a project in which i am trying to integrate ClearCase with ClearQuest via Perl. It's quit an opportunity to practice shell programming. In another word, I've written some shell script for the bakning system projects under SCO unix. May it help me find a job. But i have no time to get C++ and Java experience lar!
    • 如果不确定将来干刹么现在学刹么，有个好方法： -map(恭喜); 2001-3-7 {463} (#31004@0)
      就是查查美加的招聘网站，看看人家的要求，比比自己的能耐，GAP在哪里，当然就现出来了，接下来做刹么，当然就明白了。

      其实ＩＴ有许多方面，现在国内１００个ＩＴ人里面真正做技术开发的估计不到一半，大部分都在销售／售后服务，还有一些是用户。因为被称做IT人，又常常被哄得发表所谓 IT言论指点江山，难免就错觉自己是个IT高手，以为一通百通，来了北美做PROGRAMMER也行。

      还是要”脚踏实地“啊。

      BTW， JABBER，你的英文好地道，加上严密的逻辑鲜明的论点几乎可以做范文，聊表敬意。
      • 恭喜, I was touched to tears... -jabber(jabber); 2001-3-7 {539} (#31024@0)
        I really like to be flattered.

        It is a pity that not all the "IT professionals" are as self-motivated as you are. For examples, some people ask how much the chance is for a
        PowerBuilder programmer to get a job offer in Canada. Actually, it is easy to answer this question by searching the key word "powerbuilder" at
        www.workopolis.com or similar sites.

        By the way, I really appreciate the Chinese writing by Jasmine at
        www.is4u.net. I think she is writing using her heart. Her articles can be published in a book.
        • Agree. She is one of those truly gifted. -winterblue(winterblue); 2001-3-7 (#31120@0)
    • 写得太棒了，如同黑夜中的一点星光。 希望以后还能看到这样真实的心理感受 -sun_xd(浪子); 2001-3-7 (#31141@0)
    • Jabber, enjoy reading your articles, many helps to me. thank you very much. -cinder(cinder); 2001-3-8 (#31554@0)
    • 非常佩服您的观点... -guest:David_Ye_ca; 2001-3-11 {198} (#32041@0)
      非常佩服您的观点，以前帖子中Oracle DBA的故事也很鼓舞我，想就我的
      情况向您私下讨教，如果能在百忙中挤出点时间，给我点建议，我将不胜感激。My email address is David_ye_ca@us.sina.com

      Another Chinese
    • 我基本同意Jabber。我有些变态，因为我从汇编到C++写了六七年，结果和一个只上了三个月Java培训班的人工资差不多。你说气人不？号称会Java,EJB,CORBA, 名词一大堆，却连基本的操作系统、系统结构，数据库常识都没有，只会吹！ -ericwu(Eric Wu); 2001-3-16 (#33935@0)
      • 千万别变态，我从汇编写到C++，10年了，还没找到工作呢，是不是比你惨，有些事情千万别较真，要说那些转行的真不容易，从一个自己擅长的领域转到一个完全陌生的领域是需要很大的勇气的。反正大家互相体谅点，都不容易。 -firefox99(firefox99); 2001-3-16 (#33937@0)
        • 受益、受益，你的面试叫人受益！下会我去面试我给他们聊我正在学的新技术时，专聊那种还在理论研究阶段，还没进LAB开发的新东东！！ -whitetiger(whitetiger); 2001-3-16 (#33945@0)
      • 你何必生气。你又不雇他(她)。 -guest:FEB; 2001-3-16 (#33938@0)
      • 很多职位也不要求你精通，用不了那么深。倒是想请教一下，计算机科班出身的人择业的优势，方向，范围如何？ -guest:; 2001-3-16 (#33942@0)
        • 专业思想方法，专业的COMMEN SENSE：软件设计方法，软件结构，数据结构，算法优化，编程风格，系统知识（硬件系统，操作系统，软件应用系统）这些东西讲起来有些抽象其实都不是很难（特别是在实用阶段） -guest:; 2001-3-16 {160} (#33954@0)
          问题是要很好的体会应用需要学习，及实际应用才能真正掌握。当然不是每个科班都能很好的掌握，很多非科班通过实践自学掌握的很好，但科班进行了系统的学校学习具有先天优势
          • 也许平时工作并不明显看出太多差别，但1）计算机业工资较高2）还是有差别的 -guest:科班LABOUR; 2001-3-16 (#33958@0)
          • 在市场上，能不能划分出哪些更适合科班的，哪些不适合，举些例子，免得大家争同一碗饭。 -guest:; 2001-3-17 (#34155@0)
      • Eric, take it easy. Your strong background will reward you. Those so-called Java programmers will have their hard time. -jabber(jabber); 2001-3-16 (#33965@0)
      • 运气很重要，我知道有人连session，cookie都没听说过，还在一著名公司写著名e-commerce程序呢! -uid(miracle); 2001-3-16 (#33969@0)
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