布什清华问答实录(中英)

ranger (漂泊奇遇)
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布什清华问答实录(中英)
2002-02-22 3.55PM

  以下是美国总统布什在北京清华大学与学生对话的中英全文:

  清华学生用英文提问:昨天您和江主席进行了谈话,并且开了联合发布会,您在这个会上没有清楚地回答一个问题,那就是战区导弹防御系统是否会包含台湾在内?另外,我还想问,谈到台湾问题的时候,您说和平解决,您对和平统一是怎样的看法?

  布什:非常好的问题,首先,我很赞赏你的英文,非常好!讲到台湾问题,很重要的一点就是美国的政府在讲到如何和平解决台湾问题的时候,总是说到和平、对话,我们强调和平这个字,我们指的是双方都要以和平的方式来解决,任何一方都不可以进行任何挑衅的行为。

  我跟中国的领导人有过多次的谈话,每一次我们都强调我是支持“一个中国”的政策,而且这是长期一贯的政策,到目前为止没有改变。

  至于有关导弹防御系统,我已经说得非常清楚,这是一个防御性的系统,是要帮助我们的盟友和其他一些国家来保护他们免受无赖国家的攻击,这些国家是希望发展大规模杀伤性武器的,我想制定这一点,对和平是非常有重要的,我昨天也非常清楚地说明这是事实。我们目前正在发展导弹防御系统的过程中,目前还不知道可行不可行,但是我觉得对全世界的和平会带来贡献。

  还有一点,我觉得对中国人来说,对美国人来说这一点必须要知道,美国政府希望能够以和平的方式解决发生在全世界的许多问题,那因为美国现在处理的问题非常多,好象中东的问题,你们从新闻上看到以后知道了,这是一个非常危险的时代,我们正在努力地致力于和平,我们希望克什米尔的问题也能够和平解决,这对中国也非常重要的。我来中国以前,我到了韩国,我也明确表示,我希望以和平的方式解决朝鲜半岛的问题。

  清华大学传播系学生:很遗憾,您刚才还是没有明确的回答,您总是说和平解决,而没有说和平统一。三天前您在日本访问时,在议会发表演讲说,美国将牢记对台湾的承诺,我想问总统先生这样一个问题,美国是否还牢记他对十三亿中国人民的承诺呢?那就是遵守《中美三个联合公报》和“三不”政策。

  布什:感谢您,我想台湾问题是全世界都关心的问题。我想,就台湾的问题,我已经再明确不过了,就是我急切地看到,希望台湾的问题能够得到和解,这就是我为什么说到需要和平对话的原因,我也希望这件事情能够在我有生之年,或者你有生之年能够成就,这将是一个重要的里程碑。美国政府是这样的,我们一旦签署了什么协议,或是我们进入了什么协议,我们都会遵守这个协议,我们在美国有与台湾关系法,我们曾经承诺要保护台湾。但是我们已经明确说明,任何一方都不能有挑衅的行为。

  清华大学经管学院学生:总统先生,欢迎您这次来访,感谢您刚才精采的演讲。我们可以预见到,中美两国的学术文化交流活动前景是非常广阔的,那么,刚才在您精采的演讲当中,我也看得出来,您对我们清华大学给予了很高的评价。那么现在我的问题就是,如果将来您的两个宝贝女儿有机会继续深造的话,您愿意让您的女儿来我们清华大学吗?

  布什:但是她们已经不再听话了。我想,你知道我的意思吧,首先我希望她们能够来清华,因为这是一个非常奇妙的国家。我第一次来中国的时候,是1975年,跟现在相比,我实在很难用言语来形容中国发生的翻天覆地的变化。我当了总统以后第一次来中国是到的上海。她们跟美国的很多学生一样,都希望到中国来看一看。所以我觉得我们两国之间,进行学术,或是学生交流是非常必要的。而且,我也觉得美国应该欢迎中国的学生到美国去学习。因为我觉得这样子对中国的留学生来说是有好处的,对美国的学生本身也是非常有好处的。我想,很重要的一点就是我们必须了解,我们两国的人民必须了解我们都是人,我们都是有七情六欲的,都是有我们的烦恼的,都是有我们的快乐的。连年纪比较大的公民,像我们的副总统也是一样的。因为我们如果一起交流,我们一起有时间在一起的话,我们能够双方更加了解,这是对我们有利的。因为,在我们双边的关系中,我们的的确确有一些问题是不能够百分之百地达成一致的意见。但是,当你能够跟一个人相互更多的理解,更多的了解的话,您可能就这些分歧进行更好地讨论,毕竟我们是人,是有血有肉的人。

  我觉得非常重要的有一点,我们认识我们毕竟是血肉之躯,我们毕竟是人,所以有一些事情,比如我提到了家人,我认为家庭在社会中是不可分割,也是一个非常重要的组成部分。中国在历史上,文化上,有敬老爱幼,尊重家人的传统,我希望美国也有这样的传统,这个概念不只是给某一个国家的,这是全球性的概念。当两国的学生聚在一起,一起学习的时候,我们能够更加理解对方的价值观,我想这样就能更加贡献于世界的和平。

  清华大学传播系学生:去年圣诞节前,您的弟弟曾经访问过我们清华大学,他来的时候讲,在美国有很多人,特别是政界对中国有很多的误解,刚才副主席和您提到,两国都想促进两国之间的关系健康发展和人员之间的交流,我的问题是作为美国总统,您打算采取哪些具体的措施促进我们人员之间在各个层面的交流?

  布什:首先,我想来到中国访问,来到清华大学就是回答你的问题。因为美国人现在非常注意我访华的整个行程。那我想大家应该有兴趣知道,我上回先到上海,在很短的时间内,在冬天来到了北京,在很短的时间内两次访华,这一点可以向您说明,我如何看重我们双边的关系。很重要的就是让美国政界的领导人能够访问中国,很多已经来过了,还有许多人还要来。能够来看一看,我们回去向他们形容中国的时候,会比较准确,我回到美国以后,我会告诉他们中国是一个伟大的国家,有非常悠久、优秀的历史,但是不止如此,还有非常美好的未来。

  很多美国人对中国非常感兴趣,不只是来看非常漂亮的中国,而且对中国人,对中国文化有更进一步的了解,我想我们两个国家都必须继续鼓励双边的人民相互访问。

  我想可以在很大程度上改变全世界对中国印象的一个机会就是当你们举办奥林匹克运动会的时候,这将是一个太好的机会了。所以,到时候全世界的人都要来到中国,不只是看运动会,还可以看到中国现代化的发展,不止来的人可以看到,全世界的人通过电视转播都可以看到,所以,奥委会让北京得到2008年奥运会的主办权是有道理的。

  提问:您1975年来过中国,到现在20多年过去了,您刚才也提到中国发生了很多变化,您有没有发现除了经济以外的中国社会的一些进步?

  布什:我想,我来中国发现最凸现的一个现象,当然是稍微跟经济有关的,但是总的来说就是整个人民的态度的改变。因为在1975年的时候,我来的时候,每个人的服装都是一样的。现在你们高兴穿什么就穿什么。你看你们第一排的,全都是不一样的服装,因为你觉得这是我喜欢的,我要这么穿。当你要套上漂亮的羊毛上衣的时候,你说这是我做的决定。当你主动地作出这样的决定的时候,别的人看了,他们也要作出自己的决定。因此,一个产品的需求就影响了整个的生产,而不是由生产来影响产品的需求。如果你能够认识到在市场上的每一个人的这种需要,这就是自由社会的一个现象之一。这就是我们解释自由的其中一个意义。

  所以,我来到这里,我看见的不只是高楼大厦,我觉得最明显的就是每个人现在可以自由地作出他自己的选择了。有了做个人选择的自由,你就可以有其他的自由,你可以自由地做其他的事情。所以,您就知道为什么75年跟现在相比,我这么惊叹中国这么大的变化,但是我觉得还要加上一句,就是这个变化是朝更好的方向发展的。我只能再回答一个问题,然后我跟你们的主席吃饭去了。

  提问:谢谢您给我提最后这个问题的机会。我以前有幸读过您的一本自传,您提到美国社会的存在的一些社会问题,校园犯罪,青年暴力,贫困儿童问题。据我所知,我们清华一位校友去年在美国就学期间被枪杀了,这种问题现在还在越演越烈。作为美国的总统,您对解决目前美国的人权状况有何打算呢?

  布什:首先要告诉你们的是,现在暴力犯罪率在美国已经开始下降了,但是只要有一起犯罪案就算太多了。只要一个人对他的邻居会施行暴力,那就是不能接受的。在美国的确有很多人还处在贫困当中,美国政府花了很大笔金钱来帮助处于贫困中的人,希望他们以后能够自力更生。当我们竞选的时候,我们最大的一个讨论,或是一个辩论的题目就是如何帮助别人自力更生。当然,对美国总统来说,在选举的时候,外交问题也是一个重要的课题。但是,美国的选民他们更注意的是国内政治局势,他们比较关注国内的问题。所以,当经济出现疲软的时候,就像美国目前的情形,他们就想要知道现在应该怎么样拯救经济。如果经济情况好的话,他们根本不谈经济。我们常常在竞选的时候谈到两个主要的关键问题,第一个就是我们的社会保障制度的结构问题,就是如何来帮助美国的这些需要社会福利的人,帮助他们有一个条件,就是不能让他们过度的,或是长期地依赖政府。另外一个常常讨论的问题就是教育。这个问题在竞选的时候可能不是那么重要,但是你当选了以后就非常重要了。当我还是当德克萨斯州州长的时候,我常常说一句话,如果你能够给一个儿童非常好的教育,你就能够避免他以后出去犯罪。

  当了总统以后,我跟两党的议员们都希望制定一个计划,就是帮助学龄前的儿童能够有一个非常好的开始,还没有到学校,就可以开始学习了。现在美国一个比较令人悲伤的一个事实,就是现在在美国有一些四年级的小学生,没有办法达到他们那个年级的阅读能力。

  如果你想想四年级还不能阅读的话,那他到了初二的时候就更不能阅读了,他毕业了以后,根本无法继续上大学。所以如果这种情形继续下去的话,对美国来说是一条死路。所以,在去年的时候,我就向国会呈上了一个议案,我们在国会中经过了很多的讨论,今年,我也希望州一级和地方一级的立法机关,就这个问题,继续推动这些倡议。我想我们的重点是放在教导他们阅读方面。今年我的夫人和我也要继续推动一个计划,就是学龄前的儿童能够得到教育。我慢慢地会回答你的问题。教育就是反犯罪的一个最好的途径,执法是很重要的。让人们因自己的行为而受到惩罚,或者负担起责任,这是重要的。但是我们坚持我们的政策的一致,也是非常重要的,也就是说,你如果犯罪了,就必须受刑罚。

  所以,最符合美国的利益的,最能够长期解决这个问题的,就是让每个人都有受教育的机会,我想这对我们的未来是非常好的。谢谢大家。



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QUESTION (through translator): Mr. President, yesterday I watched press conference made by you and President Jiang Zemin, but at the conference you didn't clearly answer a question which is concerned by almost everybody, which is whether the TMD (ph) system will cover Taiwan.

And what's more, whenever you talk about the Taiwan issue you always use the phrase just like "peaceful settlement". You never use the phrase "`peaceful reunification." What's the difference and why?

BUSH: Thank you. Very good question. First of all, I want to compliment you on your English. Very good.

The first thing that is important on the Taiwan issue is that my government hopes there is a peaceful, as I said, dialogue; that there is a settlement to this issue. But it must be done in a peaceful way. That's why I keep emphasizing peaceful.

And by the way, peaceful is a word intended for both parties, that neither party should provoke, that go ahead, I'm sorry.

TRANSLATOR: First of all oh, I'm sorry.

BUSH: She's correcting my English.

TRANSLATOR: I'm sorry, Mr. President.

BUSH: We've had many discussions with your leaders, and I've reiterated support for the one-China policy. It's been my government's policy for a long period of time, and I haven't changed it.

I also, in your question about missile defenses, have made it clear that our nation will develop defenses to help our friends, our allies and others around the world protect ourselves from rogue nations that have the _ that are trying to develop weapons of mass destruction. To me, that is essential for peace in the world.

We have yet to develop a system. And therefore that's exactly what I said yesterday, and it's the truth. But we're in the process of seeing if we can't develop a system, and I think it'll bring more stability to the world than less.

And let me just say one general comment that's very important for you to know, and it's also important for the people of my country to know: that my administration is committed to peacefully resolving issues around the world. We want the issues resolved in a peaceful manner.

And we've got a lot of issues that we deal with. We're dealing in the Middle East. And if you follow the news, it's a very dangerous period of time there. We're working hard to bring a peaceful resolution there.

We're working hard to bring a peaceful resolution to Kashmir, which is important for China.

And I recently went to Korea, and I made it very clear that we want to resolve the issues on the Korean Peninsula in a peaceful way.

Another question, please. Yes, ma'am, please?

QUESTION: It's a pity you still haven't given us a clear question about whether you always used "peaceful settlement". But you have never said "peaceful reunification". It's a pity.

BUSH: We're back on Taiwan again. Let me go ahead.

QUESTION: Because this is a question our Chinese people are extremely concerned about.

BUSH: Yes, I know.

QUESTION: Three days ago, during your speech in the Japanese parliament, you said the United States will still remember its commitment to Taiwan.

BUSH: Right.

QUESTION: But my question is, does the U.S. still remember its commitment to 1.3 billion Chinese people abiding by the three joint communique and the three 'no's? Thank you.

BUSH: Yes. Thank you very much. As I said, this seems to be a topic on people's mind, obviously. I can't say it any more clearly that I am anxious that there be a peaceful resolution. And that's going to require both parties to come to a solution.

And that's what I mean by peaceful dialogue. And it is I hope it happens in my lifetime. And I hope it happens in yours. It'll make it'll be an important milestone.

And secondly, when my country makes an agreement, we stick with it. And there is called the Taiwan Relations Act, and I honor that act, which says we will help Taiwan defend herself if provoked. But we've also sent the same message that there should be no provocation by either party for a peaceful dialogue.

Next question? Yes, ma'am.

QUESTION: Mr. President, I am a student coming from the school of economics and management in Tsinghua University. As we can see, China and the United States have a bright future in scientific and cultural exchanges.

Now, just now, you have made warm remarks about our universities, so my question is, if possible, will you be happy to encourage your daughters to study in our university? Thank you.

BUSH: I'm afraid they don't listen to me any more, if you know what I mean.

Let me first of all, I hope they do come here. It is an amazing country.

You know, as I said, I was here in 1975. It is hard for me to describe the difference; it is an amazing transformation. I first saw that in Shanghai earlier this fall or last fall. And they would benefit from coming here, as would a lot of other United States students.

I think our student exchange program is very important. I think our nation must be welcoming to Chinese students who would like to go study in America. I think that would benefit the students, but as importantly it would benefit American students. 

It's so important for people to realize in both our countries that we're dealing with human beings that have got desires and loves and frustrations. Even old citizens like me and the vice president.

Even older citizens like me and the vice president can benefit by spending time getting to know each other. Obviously, there are some issues in our relationship that we don't see 100 percent don't have 100 percent agreement on. But it is so much better to discuss these issues after you get to know a person as a person.

We're human beings first and foremost. There are just some important characteristics that are real. And you mentioned you know, I talked about my families in my speech. Family is just such an important, integral part of any society. And China has got a grand history of honoring family. That is an important tradition, an important part of your culture. And you know, I hope my country as well has a is known for a strong tradition of family.

That's a concept that's not owned by a particular country. It is universal. And when students get to know each other they learn the universality of many values. And that's going to be important for peace in the world.

Another question?  Yes, ma'am?

QUESTION: Well, Mr. President, I'm a student from Center for International Communication Studies. Well, your younger brother Neil Bush visited our university just before last Christmas, and he mentioned that there are many Americans, especially politicians, have a lot of misunderstandings about China. So just as our vice president, Hu Jintao, and you mentioned, you all want to make efforts to promote the Sino-American relationship to go ahead smoothly.

So my question is, being the president of the United States, will it take some action to promote the compacts and exchanges between the two countries, between the peoples at all different levels? Thank you.

BUSH: Well, thank you. That's a very good question. Well, first of all, my trip here and my discussion here helps promote...

People in my country are paying attention to my visit here. And it should interest you that I was here in the fall and I'm back here again in the winter: twice in a very brief period of time. That should say something about the importance of our relationships. It's important for our political leaders to come to China. And I know many have and more ought to come.

It's important for the rhetoric and we describe what we have seen to be accurate and real. And when I go back home I describe a great nation, a nation that's not only got a great history, but an unbelievably exciting future.

Many people in my country are very interested in China. And many come, as you know. They come to not only see the beautiful countryside, but they come to learn more about the culture and the people. And we've got to continue to encourage travel between both of our countries.

But you know what's going to really make a significant difference in the world understanding of your great country is the Olympics. It's going to be a fantastic opportunity. It is. It's going to be a chance for people from all over the world, not only to come and visit and to stay in hotels and to see the modernization that's taken place, but everybody in the world is going to watch it on TV too. And it's going to be a great opportunity.

And I think and that's one of the reasons why I think it made sense to give Beijing the Olympics in 2008.

Yes, sir? Go ahead and yell it.

QUESTION: Mr. President, you have been to China in 1975 and you have mentioned just now there are a lot of changes in the Chinese society. And besides the progress in economy, have you noticed any other social progress in the Chinese society? Thank you.

BUSH: Well, I appreciate that. Let me tell you my most notable the thing I've noticed the most and it has to do with the economy, but it also has to do with a different attitude toward the people. In 1975, everybody wore the same clothes. Now people pick their own clothes.

Just look here on the front row: Everybody's dressed differently because you thought this is what you wanted.

You made the decision to wear a beautiful red sweater. And when you made that decision, somebody made it. In other words, the person, the individual, the demand for a product influences the production as opposed to the other way around.

Recognizing the desires of the individual in the marketplace is part of a free society. It is a part of the definition of freedom. And I see that as the most significant change that I can see besides the new buildings and all of the construction. But the most important thing is the human dimension of freeing people to decide for themselves.

And with that freedom comes other freedoms. So you can understand why the transformation from my memory of 1975 to today is significant. I mean it is an amazing change. For the better, I might add.

I'll answer one more question, then I got to go have lunch with your president.

Yes, sir, in the blue?

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. Bush. Thank you, Mr. President, for giving me the last chance to ask you a question. And I read your autobiography and in it you wrote about some social problem in the U.S. today, just like the violence and the juvenile delinquency and such as the children in poverty. And we know as far as we know our former schoolmates of our university, Tsinghua, and he study in USA and was killed last year. And I feel so sad. And I know this kind of crime has become more and more serious in today U.S. As the president, do you have any good plan to improve the human rights today in the U.S.? Thank you.

BUSH: Sure. Well, first of all, I'm proud to report that violent crime is actually going down. But any crime is too much crime. I mean, any time somebody is violent toward their neighbor, it's too much violence.

And there's no question we've got people living in poverty. But as I mentioned, our government is very generous in the amounts of money we spend trying to help people help themselves.

When we all campaign for office, one of the big debates is how best to help people help themselves.

Foreign policy is an important part of our campaigns, of course, at least for president. But the American voter really is more focused on domestic politics, what's happening at home, as you can imagine. If the economy is soft, like ours is now, they want to know what's going to happen ``What are you doing about the economy?''

If the economy's good, then they don't talk much about the economy. But always we talk about two key issues, to address your problem. One is welfare. How do we structure a welfare system that helps people in need and in my judgment should not make them dependent upon their government?

And the other big issue is education. It's always not only an important part of campaigns, but it's important part of being once you're in office.  When I was the governor of Texas, I used to always say an educated child is one less likely to commit a crime. As governor, and now as president, I've spent a lot of time working with members of both political parties to develop an education plan that starts making sure children learn before they just get shuffled through the system.

One of the saddest facts about my country is that there are a significant number of fourth-grade students who cannot read at grade level. Imagine a child who can't read in the fourth grade is a child that's not going to be able to read in the eighth grade. And if the child can't read in the eighth grade, it's likely that child's not going to be able to read sufficiently when they get out of high school, and therefore won't be able to go to college. It's a shame in America that that's the case.

So as part of an education bill I managed to get through Congress last year, we got a significant reading initiative where we'll work with the states and the local jurisdictions to focus on an education program that emphasizes reading.

This year I hope to work, with my wife and others, on an early childhood development program, so the youngsters get the building blocks to learn how to read. I'm actually working my way to your question, I promise you.

Because education is the best anti-crime program.

It's important to enforce law. It's important to hold people accountable for their actions.

It is important to have consistent policy that says, ``If you harm somebody, there will be a punishment for that harm.''

But in the best interests for my country, the long-term solution is to make sure the education system works for everybody. And when that happens, there'll be a more hopeful future for people, and there'll be less poverty, less hopelessness and less crime.

Listen, thank you for letting me come. God bless you all.
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2002-2-22 -05:00

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