I am NOT talking about the FEW SKILLED workers, I am talking about the trend and the general skills - which most of us belongs to -mikesmith(老猫) @枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum

工作学习 / 事业与工作 / 关于Cisco 认证的问题？ -yu262691(yu262691); 2006-3-22 {106} (#2856695@0)
请问各位高手，我正准备考CCNA的认证，不知道我是否应该一口气考到CCIE?如果只拿CCNA,与之相关的工作机会多不多？

如果轻松，那你就一口气到CCIE, 看你觉得自己的承受能力怎么样了,技多不压身，如果担心over qualify, 大不了在简历造假，跳过不提就是了 -buma(buma); 2006-3-22 (#2856704@0)
It depends... -bluewinter(冬天不再来); 2006-3-22 {359} (#2857267@0)
It depends what kind of job that you are looking for. If you are looking for an entry-level position, CCNA is ok.
CCIE is definitely more useful but you need to have lots of hands on experiences before you can get that. It would be better if you could find a job with which you can extend your experience with Cisco platforms before you go for the CCIE exam.

Absolutely. -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-22 (#2857798@0)

如果你现在才学CCNA的话, 不是打击你, 等你考完CCIE也就过时了. -sweetpotato(阿土仔); 2006-3-22 (#2857301@0)

你没说梦话吧？ -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-22 (#2858267@0)

That's mean to say something like that. What's the matter with you? Too young, or pretend to be cool? -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-24 (#2862627@0)

you think that's mean? well, too bad, just telling the truth. truth always hurts. and i'm not pretending to be cool. I am cool. -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-27 (#2868012@0)

CCIE is good, even though not as hot as a few years ago. But think about what you want to be in 1-5 years, and what the market will be in 1-5 years. -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-22 {1202} (#2857817@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛) Do you know the market right now?
- Cisco Routing and Switching has become a commodity. Doesn't mean market does not need expert level skills. But it has shrinked dramatically, and keep shrinking.
- Convergence is hot. But if you are pre CCNA now, it is too late. My prediction is in 18-24 months, it will become commodity, if as much as R&S
- Security, cisco is not the single player, and not even the biggest player. PIX/VPN/IDS, what's all it can offer now. Too much to learn from other vendors, and you need to understand the code.

2) Can you predict the market in a longer term?
- very few people can. if I can, i would not have time to go to rolia.net
- having said that, you should try your best to collect information and match your interest and skills, plan ahead never hurts

3) Cisco is just a vendor. We don't want to tie ourselves too much to a single vendor, no matter how big it is now. When you talk about cisco, I assume you want to do something in IT services, more specifically, networking services. In this area, too many people with paper based certification can't find a job. So, my advice, match your experience with the certification level更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

还prediction呢，md我差点吐了。赶紧改行算命吧 -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-22 (#2858326@0)

不信你就等着看。在这行干没这点眼光还来混饭吃，没戏。 -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-22 (#2858646@0)

就你那小样还说人家混饭吃, 进来看看 -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-22 {1413} (#2859061@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛first thing first, seems that you know cisco has been the dominant market player at the time and it certainly needs people who understands what’s running inside of the box, you are right about that. But are you kidding me about the demand of needing such skills has been shrinking? wake up buddy, it’s not because of less demand for these skills, it’s because there are more people with these kind of knowledge. bigger market always require more people to support it. years ago, people with CCNA 都拽的跟八万似的, of cause, now means nothing.

hard for newbies to find a job nowadays is not because less demand for supporting these boxes, it’s because the technology has been out there for a while, many people with years and years of experience.

Convergence is only just getting started. there should be a huge demand for people with convergence skills for a good while. only smaller sized and newer corporations started to deploying IP phones, most of huge companies are still on pbx. also think about the households, soon or later every house phone is going to have an IP address on it.

It’s true that cisco is not the only vender for security, actually they just started to get into security field, and their product sucks. but you know what? people buys it, simply because of compatibility issue. if you are using cisco routers and switches, then what in hell do you want to buy a checkpoint?更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

not bad, look inside.... -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-24 {775} (#2862604@0)
What I mean "commodity" is in the perspective of system integrators, not manufactor. Cisco may sell more boxes now and make big money. It does not matter. when there is too many skills on the street, the price for services will drop. it happened before on R&S, and it is happening right now on VoIP. I am not denying VoIP is going huge, but from a skill perspective, it will soon reach to a point that there are many skilled workers available in the market, the margin for system integrator will drop. for every IP phone a system integrator sold, the profit for cisco is 10 times bigger than the system integrator. SI is losing money, instead of making money on most IPT projects. A skilled IPT engineer can make 100K+ easily now, won't be the same case in 18-24 months.

Okay, let’s analyze this from integrator’s point of view… -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-27 {920} (#2868077@0)
yes, the service rate will definitely drop when the market flooded with so-called "skilled professionals". due to incompetence of these wannabes, standard market rate is lowered than before for these skill sets. But this is only for people with less significant amount of skills or experience. You think a skilled IPT engineer will not make 100k+ 24 month later? then you are definitely wrong, only a NOT skilled engineer won’t be making 100k+ 24 month later. heck, they never did and never will anyway.

You think R&S doesn’t worth much now? Let me tell you, people with R&S Skills still earns the same, of cause this does not include those who just know how to make a few routers or switches talks to each other. knowing how to design a network requires years of experience, it is essential for any corporation to have Skilled, experienced R&S guys. It is prerequisite for security and voice or any other stuff.

I am NOT talking about the FEW SKILLED workers, I am talking about the trend and the general skills - which most of us belongs to -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-27 {1302} (#2868348@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛In any sector of IT industry, the few SKILLED workers can always make a reasonable good salary. Whether it is in network, security, programming, voip, marketing, sales..... VoIP is hot today, so the market value for a general skilled worker is higher than average, or than people with similar skills in other sectors. When the hype passed in 18-24 months, the market value for those people will drop, for sure less than 100k.

I am in R&S, VoIP sector for quite some time and many of my friends are in this sector too. 100K is not some magic number. Also, I've seen many high valued skilled worked in R&S ended up not so well, or moved on to voip or security due to shrinked market demand. You can no longer ask for the same high salary level you enjoyed in the dot com boom when there are so many less skilled worker in the market and asking for half of the price. It is a reality, and you know it is true.

I have no intention to de-value CCIE, as in my team there are very good people with CCIE certification and is really helping the business and helping the team.

But, for a new comer who is deciding what sectors he should go into, I want to shed a little light to that guy, not to discorage, rather to alert him what to look out for in his future careers.

I am nice, and with teeth.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

highly support! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863079@0)

but it is still a commodity based market -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-25 (#2863737@0)

Please don't say that. My company used a lot of Cisco boxes. But we use Checkpoint too. Also we use Nortel equipment. No compay like one vendor only in their network. -nking(Richme); 2006-3-24 {186} (#2863495@0)
By the way, CCNA won't help you to find a job in netowrk market. Even CCIE holder won't be that easy to get very paid job. I know some CCIE holder just working in Teaching Cisco stuff.

"match your experience with the certification level " hit the point. -lmx(流氓兔); 2006-3-24 (#2862965@0)

赶快考吧，全都tm的考，闲着干吗？坐那儿长肉啊，别听一帮白吃在这儿吃饱了饭说胡话 -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-22 (#2858309@0)

同意，趁年轻记忆力好闯劲足的时候能考就考，拿到手再说 -buma(buma); 2006-3-22 (#2858476@0)

"SIP/SIPPING/SIMPLE + J2EE + SOA + Microsoft LCS + Cisco CM5 + ICM" skills are in high demand. If you know those pretty well, 120K 别人求你。 -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-24 (#2862658@0)

know well means? -frankwoo(柳五随风); 2006-3-24 (#2863431@0)

means you can gather requirements, design, config, and troubleshooting a 5,000 - 50,000 node network -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-25 (#2863738@0)

我是做UNIX的，我不需要看书也可以考过CCNA，如果通过CCNP，可能我看书一个月左右，动动手，，，，，老大，你的话简直不可以理解，你不是做IT的吧？？？ -sunhaoyang(unix); 2006-3-24 (#2862948@0)

如果单做UNIX看一个月的书能过NP的话，我俩星期能过IE。 -lmx(流氓兔); 2006-3-24 (#2862958@0)

老大，有机会单聊，UNIX里面的OPEN VIEW的NNM，IT/O你了解吗？里面涉及到很多CISCO的复杂问题，，，CCNA对于我来说确实是很容易，，北京超现代，牡丹圆北航的几个老师，华泰精英中心， -sunhaoyang(unix); 2006-3-24 (#2863280@0)
CCNP里面的OSPF，IGRP聚合路由，有些难度，，但对我来说不是非常难,,,对于没有经验的UNIX人来说，其他专业比较复杂，我做UNIX8年，其他的ORACLE，CISCO我也比较熟悉，，，CCNP证书不难得到，但是作为一个有经验的CCNP高手很难，， -sunhaoyang(unix); 2006-3-24 (#2863283@0)

u r right, HO-CSA is also easy to get, and I just spent one week to pass SCSA. 但是作为一个有经验的CISCO, UNIX高手很难, this is why CCIE is the best one in iT - you can get hands-on experience when preparing lab test. -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863470@0)

I meant HP-CSA. -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863476@0)

very funny - 我是做UNIX的，我不需要看书也可以考过CCNA. -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863030@0)

UNIX admin 肯定能做 CCNA的活. CCNA要做UNIX的活就很困难了. -ican(apple); 2006-3-24 (#2863258@0)

只能说你并不真正懂得什么是CCNA。 -lmx(流氓兔); 2006-3-24 (#2863267@0)

老兄, 那个A, CISCO本身就叫它ASSOCIATE而不是ADMIN, 就可见其水平了. -ican(apple); 2006-3-24 (#2863315@0)

你还别说，在加拿大的一些大学，真的有不少学校把CCNA当做一门专业研究，呵呵，，从做网线头开始理解网络7层协议，RIP和A，B，C，怎么这里的哥们都认为CCNA那么复杂呢？？CCNP复杂我还是可以理解，CCNA没什么啊。。。 -sunhaoyang(unix); 2006-3-24 (#2863322@0)

CCNA also covers OSPF, IGRP, EIGRP,LAN, WAN, etc., Unix admin has to take big effort to understand REAL CCNA. -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863420@0)
FYI -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863424@0)
ccna是没什么，关键是你懂吗？你会吗？ -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-27 (#2868101@0)

说老实话，鉴于目前国内证书泛滥的情况，我见过刚毕业的22岁的大学生有OCP和CCNP，，，我的主张是：很多人想用得到的证书来说明自己水平如何如何牛！可笑的很！！我从来不去考CISCO的证书，因为我知道，即使我1个月得到CCNP，也没有用！ -sunhaoyang(unix); 2006-3-24 (#2863299@0)

那什么有用呢? -greenwhistle(Brownie); 2006-3-24 (#2863346@0)
This is another story. we just talk about the real technique here instead of cheating one. -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863357@0)

How dare you low hand laugh at a high hand?! -001isbetter(001-is-better); 2006-3-24 (#2863355@0)

I'm sorry, but what are low hand and high hand? I was just feeling the sense of humor from sunhaoyang. -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-24 (#2863365@0)

别tm的吹了，一个月在家看书考ccnp不出奇。你要是不用看书能考出ccna的话，我把几几切给你 -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-27 (#2868088@0)

CCIE只要考2门，不要靠CCNA的 -maxtrixgg(MaxtrixGG); 2006-3-24 (#2863285@0)
单学Cisco 出来能找到工作，但饭碗不香。要证书和经验结合，掌握市场需求，这一行雇主很看重经验。因为paper证书太多了. 而且R&S已经成为Commodity. -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-25 (#2863747@0)

1万多个就叫Commodity了？ie对找工作还是有很大帮助的，高了拿不到，起手50k还是没是么问题的，接下来能拿多少那就看你的真实水平了。voice ie量很少，70k的是看不住的，估计experience不够。 -ccie_sec(ciscoguy); 2006-3-25 (#2865004@0)

看你在什么Level看。从雇主角度看，R&S 几年前就已经是了。从120 K 到 80-90K 到 60-80K ，在同一个公司，一个初级程序员起步也有50K. -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-25 (#2865157@0)

从“文人相轻”到“IT人相轻” ---- Developer PK Networker -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-25 (#2865250@0)

I am in network area now and I am loving it. My wife is a developer though. So in my case, developer is always more important than network. -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-26 (#2865609@0)

呵呵, 将来您要再有个儿子做TESTER就好了. :-) -c-c-c(其实,我是一名程序员); 2006-3-26 (#2865612@0)

哈哈，还有IE相轻：2天Lab和1天Lab的。：） -gr8gta(gr8gta); 2006-3-27 (#2868110@0)

搞这行我见过的，什莫证书没有的150K , ＣＣＩＥ　Ｖｏｉｃｅ刚考出来的 70Ｋ，　NOW. -mikesmith(老猫); 2006-3-25 (#2863758@0)

关于CISCO培训光盘的问题，您如果想自学，可以到 www.net130.com 也有兄弟下载后作成光盘出售的说 -jasonfeng(jasonmouse); 2006-3-26 (#2866261@0)
这有什么希奇，别说什莫证书没有150K ，还有什么都不会拿150K呢。但他们绝对考不出ccie -coolj(酷不起来); 2006-3-27 (#2868093@0)

up! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-27 (#2868342@0)

I am NOT talking about the FEW SKILLED workers, I am talking about the trend and the general skills - which most of us belongs to

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