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The Blog of 劲羽飞张

The Series of 思辩

Thanks for Winterblue & Rollor's vindication. I am not an elocutionist. But it's a good opportunity to practice my English skills, I write this essay.

diao_david(LoveBeer)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Two weeks ago, one of my friends called me from Montreal. He worked for a Canadian company in Shenzhen. This time, he was assigned by his boss to Canada to conduct a new project. He had told me he that he was finding a new job and got dozens of interviews. So, when I heard his voice, I supposed he would come to some companies in Toronto. But he told me "I'll be back China." "What?! As an excellent Telecommunication Engineer, I am sure you can find a job even in this recession." His decision surprised me. "Thank you for your encouragement. I am not worrying about my job. In fact, I've got offers from some big companies." his voice changed to sad, "But have you heard the news about those explosions in Shi Jia-Zhuang?" "Yes, I am so sorry to hear that." He interrupted me, "Chinese people are at the edge of mad. I think I must come back to tell them something about religions." I argued with him, "Are you a missionary? And do you believe Chinese could accept Christianity?" He replied, "Yes, I am an engineer. And I think most of Chinese held rejective attitude to Christianity. But some Chinese are too indulging in the worship of money. If their fanatic dream of wealth cannot be fulfilled, they will do such dreadful things. I believe religion can lead them calm down. To intellectuals, give them Christian idea. To farmers, give them Buddhism." "What will you propagate to those unemployed workers?" I asked him. "I haven't got clear idea about this. But I will find an answer."

Maybe someone will censure this friend as a naive person. I really admire him for his courage and altruism. But I did not totally agree with him. So I wrote an essay（#35572） to express my opinion. In that essay, I said that religions or some kinds of mental pursuit were luxury to Chinese people. The other part of my idea is "Chinese need wealth." I am not saying everyone should only pay attention to money. What I mean is :" China is not rich enough to consider ideology. Economic development should be put on the highest priority of Chinese tasks . And to ensure economic development, a stable social system, a reasonable allotment system, and a law-based bureaucratic system are necessary preconditions." But now, these systems are still under construction.

I am so glad that Mr. Jian mentioned those internal migrants of China. Maybe some friends can remember an article written by Old Wolf #35517. It described another side of Shenzhen's flourish. Friends, when you enjoy your comfortable life in a modern Chinese city, have you though about why your salaries are much higher than other ones'? If it's because you create such huge contribution to the society, I heartily admire you. Yesterday, Sina published the first formal official survey of Chinese wealth class. I think we can get some clues from that report. Even you are proud of your professional skills, your fortune, or something else. Please tell me, where this polarization of wealth will lead China to? Why demonstrations, bank robberies, and explosions occurred in China since the beginning of new millennium?

Loyalty of a country does not mean not bashing its ulcers. It seem as that you can't refuse to cut your lover's cancer just because you love him/her and do not want hurt him/her. It's a good news that Chinese government is reconstructing Chinese social insurance system, its medical insurance system, it's trying to emancipate enterprises from administrative bandage. Hope Chinese people can smoothly pass these turbulent years. China can enter a formal developing route. Then we can use what we learned from these developing counties to serve our homeland.

（急着看奥斯卡，还是改成中文吧。）
范仲淹所说的"不以物喜，不以己悲，先天下之忧而忧，后天下之乐而乐。"我不知道这辈子自己是否能修炼到这个境地。但是我相信海明威引用过的名句（原句记不得了），其大意是："好望角被冲走一块，非洲大陆就少了一角。每当有人死去，人类就失去一员。所以不要问丧钟为谁而鸣，它就是在为你而鸣。"石家庄爆炸案号称是顺利告破，但是这样就能告慰在睡梦中屈死的冤魂吗？这样就能防止同样的悲剧重演吗？我们就该仅仅沉湎在对过去美好生活的回忆或者现在种种失意的叹气中吗？

中国几百年的闭关锁国，最终导致的是自己的衰弱。记得鸦片战争前，中国的统治者还对外号称自己是天朝大国，英法等地不过是蛮夷之邦，可倒是非常地骄傲。然后一旦战败，马上就割地赔款，奴颜婢膝。Jian 说得很对，不要像阿Q，洋洋自得，如果仅仅为了挣钱在这里做 General labour 和 Senior System Architect 没有本质性区别。更不要说什么"做 labour 工，一样可以养车买房。"，那样就是对你自己聪明才智的浪费。可是也没有必要因为一时的低落，丧失信心。我很欣赏的一句话"鹰总是鹰。虽然有的时候它比鸡飞的还低，但是它一飞冲天的高度，鸡是永远达不到的。"

我相信已经从中国来的或者准备从中国来的技术移民们，都应该对自己的未来有过反复的考虑。我认识的很多朋友放弃了身份，回中国去了。他们并不是Loser, 只是他们认为在中国能更好地发挥他们的聪明才智。衷心地希望他们能在中国的发展中起到积极的作用，而不是把目前社会、法制的种种不完善当成个人资本积累的"机会"。我自己选择留下，是因为面对世界的挑战很多经营管理的理念在中国无法接触，我希望能够学到这些知识。我说自己为了生存去做 General labour, 确实有些矫情，如果不去读书的话，我完全可以闷在家里蹲完三年移民监。但是现在我可以从我的亲身体验对朋友们说，即便去做 General labour, your life in this country will not down to the hell and it will be much better in the future. We are not second class citizen. We can live in this country with honor of being Chinese. And this will not come just because of some elites, it depends on struggle of you and me.

我并没有 Rollor 大哥说的那么好。从我的兴趣来说，我也是喜欢做些实际的技术工作。但是当我发现技术需要经营管理才能转化成实际的效益，特别是从中国来的这么多技术人才被浪费在不需要技术的岗位上后，我决心去学习管理了。希望与朋友们一起为中国以及在海外的中国人的发展共同努力。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
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Last Updated: 2001-3-26
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The Blog of 劲羽飞张

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  • 枫下茶话 / 社会 / My response to Lovebeer. Boy I like debating, for every little nonsense I and my sister can go on and on and on... please don't take it personal when there are name calling, finger pointing...blah...blah. I don't really mean that. So here we go... -guest:JIAN; 2001-3-25 {4444} (#36886@0)
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛"可是我们的产品在国内绝对质量第一、技术领先。我们生产的仪器卖到中东，我们的竞争对手是德国的一个历史悠久的集团企业。同样的价格下，我们能提供比他们先进几代的产品。我真的很为我所做过的骄傲。"
    ''我们确实自愧不如。如果真的在国际市场上竞争的话，现在我们一定是失败者."

    You are contradicting your self.

    "可是，到了咱们国内企业去推销这样的产品时，这个长那个长的都要关心一下。真的是严肃认真地进行考察吗？无非就是见到肉就要咬一口。为了签一个合同，我们要跑几十趟，酒席要吃掉无数桌。这个过程真的有必要吗？如果用那些时间去写写程序、改进改进产品多好."

    Just wondering what was your position? Ever heard the title "Technical sales and Marketing"? That is their job, same business conducted every where. If you're programmer/designer then why the hell you step on other peoples territory? From your previous post, tell me you pretty much enjoy those banquets do you?

    “国产的产品价格应该是进口产品价格的1/5“，什么混账逻辑。即便他们是几万人的企业，比比人均产值，比比真正为社会做的贡献，凭什么因为我们是个几十人的小公司就要低三下四？

    What your expect Canadians are going to say? Sorry. They will say "Yes sir, I like you product very much, sir! It's fabulous, outstanding, sir! Yeah I will pay you 1/5 of what I paid for imports, sir! Because you are bunch of small fishes with small overhead, and normally small fishes like you are willing to flex the price to grab those little market left over by big fishes, well that's some one like us, am I right, sir? We're just too important for you, sir! And, your service and support can't match those multinationals, right? Sir! Beside, there is no duty adds on your price tag, right? sir! THEN ON WHAT EARTH SHOULD I PAY SAME PRICE FOR SOME THING THAT MADE LOCALLY, SIR?"

    所以，我自认为来对了。尽管我找不到工作，尽管为了生存我不得不去做 General Labour。但是，在付出我生活的舒适的同时，我在慢慢地学习这个社会，以及这个社会下企业的运行。我们的公司已经搬迁到深圳，希望真的如朋友们所说，深圳是中国最适于企业发展的地方。我们个人的能力是有限的，但是在自己能力的范围内，总能做出一些事来。关键要明白自己打算干什么。我是到了加拿大以后才看清自己的目标的。

    You mean there were nothing worth to learn in China? Mind to enlight me what makes you think of that? Mind to enlight me what kind business operation you can learn from a production line assembler point of view? If you feel so lost and really want have a labour job to get you self back on track...hey, plenty opportunities in China. You can go to Shengzhen, join the crowed at railway station and wait for someone come to pick you up to fill a shoe maker position at the end of the day, then you will find you self in no time I'm sure.

    如果真如 Jian 同志所言：“大家都自觉自愿地掉分, 先把自己看成进城打工的, 要求也不会很高,有一分工作就满足了,根本不敢想其他的"。那么大家也要想想，打工真的就能有保障吗？因为 IT 热，工作机会多，就去学 C++, 学 Java，这个那个的证书考一摞。好了，美国经济一衰退，网络泡沫一破灭，马上天就要塌了？我不是 IT 专家，请专家们给我讲讲为什么 IT 业要存在，IT 业怎么能产生经济价值，你们所用的技术在这个过程中起到什么作用？

    Yes I said that, sir, but I also said a lots more in before and after. But my question is: What are YOU trying to say here?

    “人离乡贱“， 我不敢苟同这样的看法。只有自己看不起自己的人才需要借助外界的环境来定位自己的价值。真的有本领，那就应该走到哪里都不怕。怕的是像我一样夜郎自大。

    I sincerely whish you can make it.

    Boyohboy, I am too dumb to understand what point you were trying to make and I also fail to recognize that you have properly addressed the issue.

    The point I was trying to make was, while some one here keep praising Canada, seems that they can't do any talk without bashing China. For god knows what reasons they are hiding their true intentions. Come on people, those Fujianese and we are on the same boat, don't be such a fool. You know your life in this country is down to the hell at present and it won't be much better in the future - second class citizen at the best... All you are trying to do Is just play aQ out of you self. "有正确的心态"? Yeah right, why don't you have that stuff when you were in China, that way you would be feel million times better than pumping some cocaine... instead of coming down here to make some double face talking. China is poor, but that doesn't automatically makes her to take all the blames, she has done her best to make us such educated idiot, what we have done for her? BE FAIR TO HER, CAN WE?更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • I didn’t really follow the original postings, so my comments are based on what you quoted and your response only. -winterblue(winterblue); 2001-3-25 {730} (#36940@0)
      Seems to me that you are just a bit overly critical. Lovebeer was only casually talking and you picked on his general comments word by word. THAT is not fair.

      By the way, a few things:
      - People can’t do any talk without bashing something, that is only human nature;
      - Most people are NOT trying to hide their true intentions;
      - Most people are NOT making double-faced talking; and
      - “You know your life in this country is down to the hell at present and it won't be much better in the future - second class citizen at the best...”?? You’d better say that’s your personal opinion, as a lot of people would disagree with you.

      And just out of curiosity, where did all the anxiety and negativity come from, Jian?
    • Something unrelated. -winterblue(winterblue); 2001-3-25 {225} (#36947@0)
      Jian:

      Make sure you marry somebody with at least one PH.D degree. And good luck to your future wife.

      I assume that you are not married yet, because you were saying you and your SISTER could go on and on and on.... ...
    • To clerify your questions, here are my comments: -rolling(Rollor); 2001-3-25 {1345} (#36989@0)
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1. LoveBeer was a founder and owner of a small enterprise in China, manufacturing a kind of "special quipment". I know quite a few such people in China, who are the owner, the executive, the controller, the general engineer, the marketer, and the HR manager, leading a team of five or six young fellows struggling side by side with big sharks.

      2. “国产的产品价格应该是进口产品价格的1/5“，什么混账逻辑。
      In this paragraph, LoveBeer did not complain about the price, instead, he was upset by the way his price was defined so low.

      3. "You mean there were nothing worth to learn in China? "
      This is too much. One can always learn something somewhere. 广大知识青年上山下乡, 后来大部分为什么又回城了, 是因为there were nothing worth to learn in 农村吗?
      LoveBeer考虑了自己的现状和将来, 决定移民加拿大, 不惜以自贬三级做general labor为代价. 这和中国民工进城打工虽有相似之处, 但怎么能简单置换呢?

      4. You hate people blaming China. I don't konw who is blaming China. At least on Rolia, we always see people's royalty to China behind their words. However, that does not mean we can say nothing bad about China. After living in China for many many years, we have chosen leaving China. There must be a reason. We use this forum as a media to express our feelings. Does that make you think we are Ah Q? If we are, what are you?更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • Thanks for Winterblue & Rollor's vindication. I am not an elocutionist. But it's a good opportunity to practice my English skills, I write this essay. -diao_david(LoveBeer); 2001-3-26 {5826} (#37035@0)
      • 好。 -rolling(Rollor); 2001-3-26 (#37141@0)
      • Excellent article! -sailor(Sailor); 2001-3-26 (#37213@0)
      • 漂亮。如果你在开头预告一下后半段是中文的话，我会更早看它的。呵呵。 -pasu(InTheSky); 2001-3-26 (#37248@0)
      • excellent, I almost worship you. Your english is so good. Tell me your experience on learning english. -anitalee(moon river); 2001-3-26 (#37253@0)
        • In fact, my writing is not very good. So, I keep on practicing it at any opportunities. There are many experts in this forum, Jabber, Shao, WJiang, etc. I really admire Jian's vocabulary and his skills of using English. -diao_david(LoveBeer); 2001-3-26 (#37286@0)
      • 引用一句加拿大人的口头禅“It is SUPER!" -beibei(beibei); 2001-3-26 (#37435@0)
        • superb? -eglington(_); 2001-3-26 (#37439@0)
      • 厉害厉害，以前是百科全书，现在是文武双全了，佩服佩服。 -coffee(coffee); 2001-3-26 (#37456@0)

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